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Messages - dmtaylor

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Ingredients / Re: Gravity contributions of Raisins, Dates and Figs?
« on: March 21, 2016, 07:34:32 PM »
Good to know Dave.

I'm not sure how I'm going to approach this yet but it will be an original Dubbel/DSA combo with mixed base malt, date/fig/raisin/Turbinado contributions and whole leaf American hops.

See revisions above also.

Yummy yum.  Good luck with it.

Ingredients / Re: Gravity contributions of Raisins, Dates and Figs?
« on: March 21, 2016, 07:13:15 PM »
As promised...... in my experience, dried dates will give you 26 points per pound per gallon (1.026 specific gravity).  Sorry that's all I know.  I would guess the other dried fruits should give very similar results.

EDIT: Now I'm wondering if the Experimental Homebrewing book assumes the dried fruits are sugar coated??  Hmm, my scientific mind will think on this some more............

EDIT #2: No, I'm right.  EH is wrong (sorry Denny).  Dates should give about 26 ppppg based on my experience.  The ones I used were not mashed with any malts, just crushed and added to water, then measured with hydrometer.  If mashed with malts, they would have yielded more, as carbs got converted to more sugars.

I calculate figs might be as much as 32 ppppg if mashed with malts and assuming 100% efficiency.  Otherwise assume a bit less.  Raisins the most, up to 35 ppppg, same caveat.  This is based on the nutrition information from real dried fruits in my kitchen cupboard, ratio of grams of carbs per total grams, and assuming it's all converted into sucrose, which it's actually not, but anyway, sucrose has 45 ppppg, so... you probably ain't going to ever see the 1.070s for one pound in one gallon that EH talks about, not sure how that would happen?!?!

It's a bit off topic for this thread, but, the main place that breaks down is when trying to clone another beer based on interpreting quoted bitterness values.

Yup, exactamundo.

My understanding is that IBU estimates are for the fresh wort so its not surprising that the IBUs is the finished beer are substantially less.
That is not my understanding. Can you point me to any reference to that? I am willing to read and learn.

My own experience was that Tinseth is the most accurate on beer samples. Yeast selection can have a big influence.

I tend to be a Tinseth believer kind of guy myself.  HOWEVER -- and this is a really BIG "HOWEVER"........

Perhaps not the best analogy.  But my point is that instead of trying to determine the exact number of IBUs for a given beer, realize that all the IBU formulae in the universe are all wrong when compared with laboratory results, and anyway, taste perception is still everything and might be totally different from either one.  Aha!

All Grain Brewing / Re: Not converting??
« on: March 21, 2016, 02:24:08 PM »
I have never, ever done an iodine test for conversion and have never not had my grains make a sugary wort. Ever.

Bingo.  We win.

Are the specs breweries quote for IBU usually for lab tested beer or can/do they post estimates based on formulas like Tinseth, Garetz, Rager?

I think most of them pull it right out of their arse.  They calculate it somehow, but round way the hell up, via either Rager or creativity, or both.

Ingredients / Re: Gravity contributions of Raisins, Dates and Figs?
« on: March 21, 2016, 10:35:07 AM »
I've got real life data at home for dates, since I made a Sumerian date beer a few years ago.  Have to look it up later..........

All Grain Brewing / Re: Not converting??
« on: March 21, 2016, 09:53:53 AM »

That's pretty dang perfect, ain't it?  Although, they do say, life begins at 1.060......... ;)

.....and he will never brew it, because it calls for Clusters and Fuggles.  :)

There's a joke in here somewhere.......... maybe we should invent a new recipe based on the Schlitz recipe, but add Honey Bunches of Oats cereal to it as well, and then name it Fuggly Clusters of Schlitz!?!?

The ROT for years is that bagged hops give you about 10% less IBU than loose hops.  The analysis here seems to bear that out.

Yes, it's almost exact!  Or 7.4% to be precise, for this one data point anyway.  :)

I've also read that an IBU difference of 6 or under is imperceptible.

Interesting.  I've heard the IBU perceptibility packet is 4 IBUs.  I hadn't heard 6.  I have no idea what my source was though.  But now of course we have real data from Marshall who can detect differences of just 2 IBUs!  Cool, I'm a convert to an even smaller 2-IBU packet based on that now.

Interesting.  I wouldn't have thought the difference to be this significant.  FWIW, I use both pellet and whole hops in my boils.  The whole ones I always bag, the pellets I do not.  I think I'm getting good bang for the buck this way, with mostly effective utilization without so dang much hop leaves/trub in the fermenter.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Not converting??
« on: March 21, 2016, 07:23:51 AM »
Just because you still have a little starch in there doesn't mean conversion isn't "good enough".  Your beer will most likely turn out fine.

As for reasons why, could be just that the Vienna and Munich base malts have fewer enzymes due to the darker kilning process.  If you had used a pound of Pilsner malt as well then we might not be having any discussion.  But like I say, regardless, I think it's going to turn out fine, probably, assuming your mash thermometer is accurate.

Gulden Draak, La Trappe Quad, or Brother Thelonious

Yes!  Way to get back on track.

Yes, but at least on this and most forums, and in Zymurgy, and etc etc, usually "recipe" is grain bill, usually not maltster specific, mash temp, hops amounts and times, yeast strain, fermentation temp. Thats it.

Whirlpool means a hundred different things, fermenter could be anything from a Homer bucket to a corny to a conical... Usually its who knows what for water.

It is interesting how all that crap does matter...... and yet most of us really don't give a crap.  Oh well.  We still make beer, and it tastes good, and we drink it.  :)

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