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Messages - dmtaylor

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61
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 09, 2015, 08:50:21 AM »
My concern has more to do with how it would affect attenuation in the end.

I've been doing extract beer this year, I've only fired up my all grain system once or twice. After comparing some numbers, many of my Hochkurz mashed AG beers ended up with FGs much lower than expected. I'm wondering if the ramp time is what's causing that, or if there's another factor I have not yet identified.

I don't think ramp time has much to do with it.  However... What were your decoction boil times?  When I decoct, I only boil the thick mash for 10 minutes at a time, not the 30+ minutes that most schedules recommend.  Still converts and attenuates just beautifully with just 10-minute rests.  This applies to both my double or triple decoction schedules, doesn't matter.  Now when I decoct (rarely), I just do a double.  I don't ever do a protein rest anymore, after it ruined the body and head of an otherwise delicious lager.  Anyway.... bottom line, my point is that longer boil/rest times are of course going to increase your attenuation.  If you want more reasonable attenuation, only boil/rest for 10 minutes each -- for me these would be in the low 140s F and mid-upper 150s F or something like that.

62
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 01:47:59 PM »
Since I've tried blended partigyle I've been even less concerned with efficiency.

Same here!  Partigyle is a sure-fire way to know how high efficiency is..... not the yummiest thing.  Taste them second runnings.  Even after they are boiled separately for an hour or two or whatever.... taste is WEAK.

Amanda -- sorry if we're derailing this again.  [/derail]

63
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 01:39:35 PM »
Until you test it, it's just a(n?) hypothesis. ;D

This message courtesy your resident... Well, maybe not evil scientist, per se, but evil TA for sure.

Scientists and rationals may claim that I rely too much on my intuition, and need to provide objective evidence.  My response is, yeah, maybe someday... but also if I never get around to it due to my laziness or whatever, then who really gives a rat?!  As long as I'm happy, I'm happy -- right!?   ;D

Anyone who is interested is certainly invited to run their own experiments proving my theory true or false, which I can choose to accept or ignore.  It's all good!!  ;D

64
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 01:03:47 PM »
...At this point, I'm probably going to bump that amount of reserved sparging water up (less of the calculated sparging water will go into the tun) and just live with the reduced system efficiency. I think better beer is made with lower efficiency. So Dave's comment to worry less about efficiency and more about attenuation is exactly the way I feel too.

I've implemented nearly the exact same process changes for the exact same reasons to the betterment of the beer and detriment of my brewhouse/system efficiency. Less of my sparge water actually sees the grain and ends up directly in the boil kettle instead.  I've taken it a step further in that I will pick a method of sparging and amount to sparge with based on grainbill size and water:grist ratio, and while it may sound more complicated it's actually a faster and easier process in the end.

I'm happy to see some reasonably credible anecdotal evidence supporting my theory!

As I shall always say... more experiments are needed!  Don't take anybody's word as gospel, even mine.

65
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 11:41:03 AM »
I was only curious if the mash would even fully convert in that short of a time (i.e. conversion efficiency). I would venture to guess yes, but I don't know that for sure.

Actually I think the answer is no; HOWEVER, I also find 40 minutes to be a sort of magical point of diminishing returns, beyond which, you don't really gain enough efficiency to give a crap, or at least, I don't personally.  Can you get a few more points out by mashing much longer?  Sure you can.  Does it matter?  That's a question that each individual needs to answer for himself/herself.

Obviously attenuation is much more important - you certainly can't taste efficiency!  ;)

Ah.... but can't you?!  Again, more experiments are needed!  I've been meaning to run such an experiment for a long time, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

66
Equipment and Software / Re: Fermentation Heaters...
« on: December 08, 2015, 10:22:40 AM »
Okay, I'll go way out on a limb here now.....

For most yeast strains, either lager or ale or in between, I theorize that there's way less flavor impacts due to temperature than most brewers would love to believe.  Temperature stability within a reasonable temperature range, perhaps, is more important than exact absolute temperature.

Maybe.  I might be wrong.  And, like anything, there are exceptions to any rule.  A hefeweizen or Belgian strain at 60 F is going to perform a whole lot differently than at 70 F.  But a lot of other strains?  English?  German ale?  American ale?  California lager?  WHO REALLY KNOWS!?!?  Answer: Not many.  I don't know.  More experiments are needed.

[derail alert - warning - sorry - generate new thread if required][/derail]

67
Equipment and Software / Re: Fermentation Heaters...
« on: December 08, 2015, 10:10:59 AM »
Oh, I don't know... you might be very surprised to see how low many ale yeasts can go and still perform quite well.  Higher pitch rates would help though.

68
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 10:07:36 AM »
Will you be doing this on a recipe you've brewed before? I would be curious if you get similar conversion efficiencies on the different mashes.

Efficiency is nothing, no problem.  ATTENUATION is the variable to pay attention to.  In my experience.

69
Equipment and Software / Re: Fermentation Heaters...
« on: December 08, 2015, 09:16:49 AM »
Colder is almost always better IMO.  When I received a fermenter heater as a gift a few years ago, I re-gifted it the next year to someone else.   ;D

70
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 08, 2015, 08:53:54 AM »
I'm going to modify my mash for my next batch using Dave's 40 minute time and a fairly generic step regimen. I've been stepping mashes in the past but not using only 40 minutes.

I'm thinking:

133'F -> 5 min
148'F -> 23 min
156'F -> 8 min
Mash out -> 4 min

Just want to try it out and see how goes it.

Holy cow, I've never done anything quite like that.  I very rarely do any step mashes.  Very interesting!  I'll bet it turns out just great like a million bucks.  Keep me posted!

71
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hochkurz vs 150F - The 'play nice' thread
« on: December 07, 2015, 08:12:31 PM »
Where's the Like button?  :D

Looking forward to hearing more results from this line of experimentation.

72
Perhaps we should pull a 1984 and delete all useless content from this thread.  That would get it down to 1 or 2 pages.

73
Myself having participated on both sides of being civil vs. being a jerk, I can say this: trolls get a kick out of this manner of arguing.  It's a kind of high.  It's sick and it's wrong and I recognize that and shall try to improve, as far as my own behavior goes.  There comes a time when both sides need to simply ignore the other, and move on.  That's what I suggest.

Wish us luck.

74
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Is my starter dead?
« on: December 03, 2015, 07:22:02 AM »
You're right.  My/our point though is that any increase in volume is most likely due to inconspicuous bubbles of CO2, which is a by-product of yeast metabolism; the volume increase is NOT directly from generation of yeast cells themselves, as you can't make something out of nothing, but rather from their CO2 by-product.  That's my theory anyway.

75
Beer Recipes / Re: Mexican Vienna
« on: December 02, 2015, 03:16:34 PM »
My recipe for a Negra Modelo inspired Vienna is at the bottom of this page.  And Denny liked it.

http://www.brews-bros.com/topic/57380-vienna-lager-authentic/page-2

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