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Messages - phunhog

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1
So I am probably in the minority here but.....what would happen if you went ahead with your competition plans as usual?  Call their bluff if you will.  Make them enforce their interpretation of the law and then use it for good PR....something like "Long standing Idaho State Fair tradition cancelled due to law interpretation". That will get many more people/politicians to take notice and you have a better shot at getting the law changed.

Because he respects the law and doesn't want to be a jerk?  We didn't have to do anything here to get the law changed without a single negative vote anywhere in the process.  Why not take the high road?

Absolutely take the high road. What I am saying is make the responsible agency cancel the homebrew comp via some sort of specific written documentation.  That plays much better in the media than a bunch of homebrewers deciding not to have it.  Besides do they "really" respect the law when it clearly says only "native grown products" can be used.   That seems pretty cut and dry...only Idaho hops, barley, yeast and water can be used. Pretty ridiculous

2
So I am probably in the minority here but.....what would happen if you went ahead with your competition plans as usual? 

Maybe a nice criminal record for all involved...

So why wouldn't they prosecute them for past competitions?  Unless the law was recently changed the competitions have always been illegal.  Is ignorance a defense?

On another note it appears that only "native grown products" can be used in Idaho homebrewing.  How can they possibly enforce that?

3
So I am probably in the minority here but.....what would happen if you went ahead with your competition plans as usual?  Call their bluff if you will.  Make them enforce their interpretation of the law and then use it for good PR....something like "Long standing Idaho State Fair tradition cancelled due to law interpretation". That will get many more people/politicians to take notice and you have a better shot at getting the law changed.   

4
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Can a boil be too vigorous?
« on: February 19, 2015, 07:55:57 AM »
I have always wondered what is most important...the vigor of the boil or the temperature.  I live/brew at sea level but what about brewers in the mountains?  Water boils at under 200 F. at 6000 ft. so obviously their boil is going to be 12 degrees F less than mine.  Does that mean I could get "boil" at 200 degrees as well?  Or is there something important that happens with the actual boiling that isn't necessarily temperature dependent?

5
The Pub / Re: Beer Excise tax legislation
« on: February 16, 2015, 07:40:43 PM »
15,000 BBL is a lot of beer to sell if you ask me.
Thirsty...you are a pro brewer right?  Love to hear your take on it! Why would the BA draft legislation that only cuts small brewers taxes in half when the competing legislation eliminates it completely?  For a small brewery I can only imagine how huge that would be to not pay federal excise taxes.

6
The Pub / Re: Beer Excise tax legislation
« on: February 16, 2015, 07:27:28 PM »
Think about the incentives under the big beer plan -- no excise tax as long as you stay small and then bam!, hit with a huge tax burden as soon as you hit 15,001. Your incentive is to stay under that 15K. I'd prefer to be paying a small rate  starting out, so I could go up to 60K and not worry about the increase in tax.

I am not so sure about that.  I am guessing it is like the federal income tax. You start paying tax on every barrel of beer over 15k.  So if you produced 16k bbl you would only be taxed on 1k bbl. 
It just seems like the vast majority of craft breweries are easily under 15k bbl.  So they would pay no excise tax!  Under the BA plan a 10k bbl craft brewery would pay 35k in excise taxes yet under the "Big Beer"  bill the same craft brewery would pay nothing!  Like I said I must be missing something since I can't imagine the BA would have a worse plan for small breweries.

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The Pub / Beer Excise tax legislation
« on: February 16, 2015, 06:27:11 PM »
I noticed that the BA has put forth legislation to reduce beer excise taxes. I also noticed that "Big Beer" also has a competing excise tax reduction bill.   http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/the-beer-act-vs-the-small-brew-act-whats-the-difference/     Here is what I don't get....it appears that the BA tax plan cuts excise taxes in half for small breweries (under 60k bbl) but under the "Big Beer" legislation it completely eliminates excise taxes for breweries for under 15k bbl!! It has the same tax rate for breweries as the BA plan for breweries  15K-60k.  Doesn't the BA have this backwards?  Shouldn't they be putting forth legislation that eliminates excise taxes on the breweries under 60k bbl production?  I am thinking of my small local breweries.  Under the BA plan their federal excise taxes are cut in half but under the Big Beer plan they are eliminated.  What am I missing here?

8
Kegging and Bottling / Re: New Kegs...Used kegs>>>Sales
« on: February 16, 2015, 04:26:29 PM »
Its getting to the point that I am ready to switch over to Sanke kegs.  You can get the 7.75 gallon for around 100 bucks.....http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/empty_kegs/quarter_slims/HS-K7.75G-DDI.shtml  So it will only take two kegs to keg 15 gallons of beer vs. three corny kegs.  I could sell my three used corny kegs and buy two new sanke kegs! Very tempting....
I'm not familiar with sanke connectors (I know what they are just haven't used them) but I am wondering how hard it would be to turn that into a fermentor? Remove the connector and you have a ss 7.5 gal container.
I use the 1/2bbl sanke kegs as fermentors. Probably the best homebrewing decision I have ever made!!  Super easy to clean. I just use a cheap pump with a drilled and capped sprinkler riser in a bucket of PBW.  Put the keg over it and walk away!!

9
Equipment and Software / Re: stupid refractometer question
« on: February 11, 2015, 09:02:42 PM »
I am glad to see this subject come up. It would seem that through the action of boiling the wort would be the same density throughout. From practical experience though I know that it's not.  If I skim some boiling wort off the top I get a different reading then when I pull a sample from the valve on the bottom of the kettle.  I am guessing temperature has something to do with it but???

10
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: NHC 2015
« on: February 11, 2015, 06:34:34 PM »
Yes I totally agree that volunteers would be first to go. I put in my application as soon as I got the e-mail on the 2nd of February. I like doing competitions mostly because of the feedback I get.
I believe 1st round moved to a checklist scoresheet format last year, so you feedback may be limited.  This, by all means, should not keep you from entering however.

Good luck!
Kept me from entering! Figured I could enter two comps for the price of the NHC AND get better scoresheets.

11
Kegging and Bottling / Re: New Kegs...Used kegs>>>Sales
« on: February 11, 2015, 05:57:54 PM »
Its getting to the point that I am ready to switch over to Sanke kegs.  You can get the 7.75 gallon for around 100 bucks.....http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/empty_kegs/quarter_slims/HS-K7.75G-DDI.shtml  So it will only take two kegs to keg 15 gallons of beer vs. three corny kegs.  I could sell my three used corny kegs and buy two new sanke kegs! Very tempting....

12
Equipment and Software / Re: The ethics of keggles
« on: February 07, 2015, 06:39:13 PM »
Regardless, not returning a keg is a civil issue, not a crime.

Actually, not returning a keg is considered to be crime (misappropriation) in many states.  The states control deposits and the laws pertaining to kegs.  It's part of the three-tier distribution system that was put into place after the repeal of Prohibition.

Here's Missouri's keg deposit law:

www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/31100000821.html

"3. Each retail licensee shall require each keg purchaser to present valid identification and a minimum deposit of fifty dollars per keg at the time of purchase. On the identification form provided by the division of alcohol and tobacco control the licensee shall record for each keg sale the date of sale, the size of keg, keg tag identification number, the amount of container deposit, the name, address, and date of birth of the purchaser, and the form of identification presented by such purchaser. The purchaser shall sign a statement at the time of purchase attesting to the accuracy of the purchaser's name and address and acknowledging that misuse of the keg or its contents may result in civil liability, criminal prosecution, or both. The licensee shall retain the identification form for a minimum of three months following the sale of the keg."
So after three months what happens?  It would seem that if breweries were concerned they would get law enforcement involved since it could involve criminal prosecution. Let's face it.....Big Beer doesn't really care about getting the kegs back or at least enough to actively pursue it.

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Equipment and Software / Re: The ethics of keggles
« on: February 07, 2015, 11:07:13 AM »
In the past there was such a thing as returnable bottles. You would pay a bottle deposit and you would get your money back when you returned the bottles.  If you never returned the bottles would that constitute stealing/theft?  Isn't the keg just one big returnable bottle?

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Equipment and Software / Re: The ethics of keggles
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:43:53 PM »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.
Very true. But....what have you ever rented where if you don't return the item you are only out your deposit?  This isn't the 1950's anymore.  Seriously....is there anyone out there that doesn't have a credit/debit card that can be used as a deposit?  Who puts down a cash deposit for anything (hotel room, car rental, tool rental, etc..)  anymore?  Now if keg theft was truly a problem for breweries they can certainly charge a full replacement value as a deposit. In those states where the government mandates the price of keg deposits....I am sure Big Beer has enough political clout that they could get the law changed easily if they WANTED the law to change. 

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Equipment and Software / Re: The ethics of keggles
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:25:42 AM »
If it says Budweiser I wouldn't give a flying eff.  They have so much power and lobbyist money that if it actually affected them, they'd bribe someone to change the deposit law.

Any brewery or distributor can immediately "change the deposit law" by charging the face value of the keg as a deposit. I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see
 how many kegs go missing.

I agree!  When I rent a car, a movie, or even a library book and fail to return it I am on the hook for the replacement value. No reason breweries can't be the same.

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