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Messages - Kit B

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All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: November 21, 2016, 08:50:22 PM »
What I mean is...
Depending on water chemistry & dissolved oxygen content, could you be forming other compounds that may not be the sulfate that you are expecting?

All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: November 21, 2016, 08:46:43 PM »
Since there is also a sodium component, it's not strictly SO2,  SO3 & SO4 being formed, right?

All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: November 21, 2016, 08:11:42 PM »
Philbrew is correct. 100mg/L of SMB add a theoretical amount of approximately 101 ppm of sulfate, assuming all MB is converted to sulfate. The calculation needs to be made based on S and assume that during a full conversion from SMB to sulfate MB will get the rest of the oxygen from the system.
Certainly some S will be lost to other reactions depending on one's process, but the theoretical maximum amount that can get converted is 101 ppm not 76 ppm.
By measuring sulfate in the final beer one can calculate how much of the sulfur in the MB got converted to sulfate.

Does everybody agree this is correct? And that, therefore, the Low o2 brewing spreadsheet has to be adapted?

Maybe I'm a rube, but I can't mathematically get 101ppm sulfate, no matter how I try.
Is someone able to show me what formula is being used to get that number?

I am the guy that Ken spoke to.
I ruined a batch of helles, by not properly cleaning my new stainless components.
I had done a quick cleaning...But, I definitely didn't do as good a job, as I should have.
I theorize that a coating of machining oil/grease & who knows what other heavy metals & filth was on some of my new components & that boiling coupled with the pH of the wort cleaned the components, far better than the lackadaisical cleaning I had done.
Consequently, the resulting beer turned out slightly darker in color & contained an astringent, metallic quality that was absolutely awful.
In talking to Ken, I'm fairly confident that he discovered the same type of problem that I had on that batch.
I don't know for 100% certain, but it seems to be a safe bet.

I traced my problem to the new stainless components, by a process of elimination.
Sodium Metabisulfite was not used in my ruined batch, so I know that was not a contributing factor.
My water filtration system was used prior & following...Also showing no contribution.
I used hops from the same 1 lb bag, on previous & subsequent batches, so I know they were not my cause.
I used grain from the same bags prior & following...Not a factor.
In truth, I later brewed the exact same recipe & found nothing like the ruined batch.
The same kettles, chiller, pump, fittings, heating element, controller, spoon, mash paddle, mash tun, etc. were all used on subsequent batches, with no ill results.

If you look into some of the processes that are used in the manufacturing of stainless components, you'll see a LOT of things used that you don't want in your beer. Greases that contain heavy metals & toxins are fairly common. Cutting oils are used, frequently.

It's not unrealistic to think that a dunk in an Oxyclean or PBW solution might not do the job.

If you can think of a better explanation, you're welcome to continue trying.
But, I believe I found the culprit in my system & have since decided to do a deep cleaning on all new parts.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Adjusting Mash PH
« on: January 29, 2016, 05:42:04 PM »
I would advocate checking the mash pH, after about 10-15 minutes of achieving a stable temperature.
If you are single-infusion mashing, Martin's spreadsheet should give you an incredibly accurate prediction of what you can expect.

Make sure you are mashing for the grain you are using...Not necessarily the style you are brewing.
Obviously, you want to take guidelines & typical characteristics into account...
But, your particular malt will demand steps that allow you to achieve those characteristics.

For adjustment on the fly, lactic acid is probably your quickest tool.
But, you may end up being able to taste its roughness in the finished product.

All Grain Brewing / Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« on: January 14, 2016, 06:11:25 PM »
If you are brewing a single-infusion helles with a typical, straight-forward malt bill, a pH of 5.2 will likely give you a bland, lifeless beer.

The less bottled acid you need to use, the better.

All Grain Brewing / Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« on: January 14, 2016, 05:24:52 PM »
I would point you toward this graph.

Anybody who does 2 or more batch sparges is pretty much wasting their time as well as causing potential pH issues.

Are you saying a double batch sparge is a bad idea?

It's a counting thing. Denny and I have went back and forth about it for year. To me EVERY draining is a batch so a batch sparge which drains and then recharges and drains again is TWO batches. Denny goes with the methodology that the first one is not a batch. He can correct me if I have once again misunderstood his nomenclature, the old coot!!!

That is exactly how I believed it to be.
Have I been defining a "double batch sparge" incorrectly?

Anybody who does 2 or more batch sparges is pretty much wasting their time as well as causing potential pH issues.

Are you saying a double batch sparge is a bad idea?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Thin and bland - culprits?
« on: January 13, 2016, 05:18:50 PM »
I have to agree with Beersk. Fined beers, do taste different than just lagered beers. Lets step back though first, to cover the bases.

Chill haze is formed when the beer is cooled, most times around 32-35F, and a haze forms. The colder the beer, the more pronounced the haze becomes. This is due to weak hydrogen bond between polyphenols and protein. As the beer cools the polyphenols are attracted to the protein molecules and attach themselves, the two compounds together make a particle large enough to defuse light, which can be seen. As the beer warms back up to room temperature, the bond is broken and the haze goes away. The two separate molecules are now invisible. If this cooling and warming cycle happens often enough, it cause permanent haze.

Polyphenols are in all wort and occur naturally in barley. Most of the polyphenols are extracted from the grain during the mashing process and the amount extracted can vary based on temperature and pH. All beer contains polyphenols to one level or another. Excessive proteins can also contribute to chill haze as proteins can start to coagulate as the beer is chilled, not to mention it can give polyphenols more protein molecules to create a visible bond.

Yeast haze is pretty simple to understand, it is yeast that has not yet flocculated from the beer and light is being defused by the yeast particles. The suspended yeast may be desirable in some beers like a Hefeweizen, but it most cases it is undesirable and can a harsh flavor component to the beer.

Another obvious form of turbidity is floating particles. Everything from trub to hops can be floating around the beer.

So, with that being said... Filtering and Fining. But really, clear beer starts in the mash tun(hint: second paragraph). We will leave that for another day.

Gelatin(in this example above)- Gelatin is a collagen protein derived from animal by-products and has a strong negative charge. When introduced into chilled beer it will bond with the positively charged yeast and proteins. Since the beer is cold, the gelatin will become gelatinous (what a surprise) and grab the yeast and some of the proteins and drop to the bottom.

So here is the reason, I explained the above about haze and whatnot:

You have to add your 1+1 here. This line:
Since the beer is cold, the gelatin will become gelatinous (what a surprise) and grab the yeast and some of the proteins and drop to the bottom.
We know this right? This is our given...Gelatin Makes clear beer, However...

What else do we have bound to the proteins at this point? Thats right, polyphenols. What are polyphenols? Flavor. SO, by grabbing these molecules using a "bond" instead of just degassing co2, and allowing the beer to do its thing naturally. I believe you do take a hit, at least thats my unscientific theory.  ;D

I was just reading somewhere that you didn't share brewing-related knowledge.
I guess some people don't necessarily pay attention.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: BrewStyle : BJCP Style Guidelines App
« on: January 08, 2016, 06:33:15 PM »
That's a really cool idea!
Good job, making the study & research process easier!

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« on: January 07, 2016, 06:29:36 PM »
Indeedydoobly. If I hit the mark, I'd want to share it with the world!

You wouldn't keep any secrets, for yourself & select pupils?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Thin and bland - culprits?
« on: January 07, 2016, 05:57:46 PM »

Oh I'm sure there's something, but it sounds like pH measurement is the next step that I was hoping to avoid. Oh well, so it goes.

Thanks for all the help, dudes. Just another step towards better beer.

I often suffer from the exact problem you have described.
Thin, weak, lifeless lager.
Don't get me wrong...It's GREAT beer that friends & family rave about.
But, I don't believe it's "good enough", in my own opinion.
So...I set out to make it better & learn what I can change.
The only ways I've found are to read classic textbooks/papers/studies on brewing/malting & join up with like-minded folks, to discuss what we see in these texts that might lead down a new rabbit hole.
From there, we can establish different practices & recipes.

If you are able to notice that your beer isn't as good as you want it to be & you know exactly what the characteristic is that makes you feel that way, you're already FAR ahead of the pack, Beersk.
...Even if you don't know what's making it that way.

Measuring pH will give you an eye-opening glimpse into the science.
It probably won't get you 100% where you are going, but it would be a big step in the right direction.

My advice to you, on pH meters is:
Buy something that measures to 2 or more decimal places.
Mine only goes to a single decimal & it bugs me enough that I want a new one.

The biggest & best thing I can tell you is this:
DO NOT blindly follow anyone that tells you "We don't need to follow that, because we are homebrewers".
This is a very serious mistake.
There's always a reason that a practice was adopted.
Rarely, is that reason related to scale.

My beers have not yet even hit the 90% mark, where I'm consistently happy with the body, flavor & texture, but I think 2 good starting points for you will be pH & mash temperatures.

I personally feel that the 150*F mash was part of my problem & I'm currently working on fixing that.

Ingredients / Re: Weyermann Abbey Malt
« on: December 23, 2015, 05:30:29 PM »
Weyermann is probably not responding, due to two factors...
1) It's the week of Christmas.
2) The Germans really don't seem to respond to emails as often as we do, in the US.

You are correct about getting a Weyeremann malt report by scanning the sack.
And...Dingman's is going to be completely different than Weyermann.
If you have Weyermann, ignore any data on Dingman's, because they know their malt & how it can be used.

I might recommend seeing if Northern Brewer can send you a scan of a recent package & see if you can get data from it.
It will likely get you much closer than Dingman's data.

There is no reason for you guys to continue trolling this thread & no high road to be taken, beyond just shutting it down & giving Amanda an opportunity to post her result.
So, let's allow her to do so & get back to brewing, instead of namecalling & baiting.

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