Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Kit B

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 41
31
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 01:46:01 PM »
Are you performing decotions electrically? If so, how are you boiling your thick mash? Hot plate with a heavy bottom pot?

I have an induction cooktop & use a kettle with a 3-ply bottom.

32
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 12:56:23 PM »
I think most of the people you'll encounter feel the work involved outweighs the benefit.

This is a very solid truth.

I really want to find someone that has the knowledge & is willing to share it.
No matter how many times I am told that the effort outweighs the fruits...
I still deeply believe that the payoff will be worth my time.
Besides...It's part of the fun, for me.
Building a basement brewroom is fun...
Automation is fun...
Electric brewing is fun...
Everyone has their own ideas of an enjoyable brew day.
Mine is different than most & involves what equates to a laboratory, when compared to some setups.
That's just part of who I have become & where I want to take my beers.
It's definitely not for everyone.


33
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 12:28:10 PM »
I think the main issue you may run into with the more complicated math (grain characteristics and their role) is this: as larger breweries move past this method and the homebrewing community gives up on it due to the lack of perceived benefit, your likely to find less and less information on the process.

Other than the basics of the method that are well documented. Good luck though.

I think you are absolutely correct, in this.
I have a feeling the math is embedded somewhere in a book by Ludwig Narziß.
Unfortunately, my high school German classes didn't teach me nearly enough to get through such detailed tech manuals.

34
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 11:46:27 AM »
I'm sure it's a bit basic compared to what you may be looking for but this is a pretty good article detailing the various methods and rests: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/decoction.html

Cool.
Thanks!

35
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 11:35:38 AM »
Thank you.

36
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 11:04:06 AM »
My problem with that article is that it's all about math and nothing about flavor.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I drink a beer, not measure it.

Sure...I understand.
I'm merely hoping to get at nut of the science, by asking questions in a place where educated brewers hang out.
If I can't ask questions related to brewing science, on a forum of The American Homebrewers Association (which I support & advocate), where do I ask them?

37
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 10:50:12 AM »
I'm sure the HBT forum would love to have you. Your posting style reflects the general attitude and candor of that crowd.

Actually, not at all.
I asked a set of questions & stated that I believe the experiments I've seen are flawed.
I went on to explain why & people got defensive.
I'm not demanding anything.
I was asking if anyone knows the math.
It's really OK to say "I don't know".


38
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 10:46:09 AM »
If blind tasters could taste any of the things you're mentioning, I'd agree with you.  Until that happens, I can't.  Thanks for your thoughts.

When I get it dialed in, I'll do a triple-blind of my own.
I'll make sure to let you know, when I post the results.
Thanks, Denny.

39
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 10:41:17 AM »
No swords, here...
I'm on a search for knowledge & don't want to be side-tracked by nonsense.
I'm a no-nonsense kind of guy.

Not everyone is willing to have a real dialogue.
When I ask a question & get the same derailing nonsense that I see every time a similar question pops up, it bothers me.
When I see lies spread to new brewers, telling them that a single infusion is all they'll ever need, it bothers me.

I have a firm belief that most of the decoction experiments I've seen are flawed.
That's not a crime, or insult.
I just believe they are flawed.

If you don't have data, you can say, "I don't have the data you seek".
It's OK to do that.

40
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 10:18:30 AM »
If I follow Kai's instructions, the results speak for themselves.
I am simply asking for mathematical data, to back up the derivation of rest times.

I have to believe the data exists, somewhere.
It's math & chemistry...Not magic.

"Most decoction mash schedules are dialed into the particular recipe/ingredients, brewhouse capabilities and brewer's preferences through trial and error"

To a point...But, these schedules are typically derived through the use of chemistry & mathematics...Not wholly trial & error.
They wouldn't waste hectoliters of wort, trying to dial in & then try again with a different batch of malt that is of a different spec...They definitely calculate rest times & temperatures, based on malt specifications & chemistry.
And, that's specifically what my original questions are in reference to.
If no one here knows the math, I can delete this thread & go elsewhere.
But, I have a feeling someone out there knows.

41
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 09:47:18 AM »
Or...You see things, like this:

"...The morning of brewing, we also had further discussion that took place regarding the actual mash times. Again, as to allow for maximum time consistency for each batch, we agreed that the mash rest time for each would be 60 minutes of the entire wort and grist together (including the decoction times. The decoction times and mash schedules were changed at the beginning of the brew day based on discussion and what seemed to be the best way to abate variability. In the end, we mashed each one for 60 minutes. Bring on the questions and comments, we do have reasoning..."

By ruining rest times & temperatures, you make the experiment flawed...Period.

42
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 09:41:28 AM »
Now...when I mention flawed experiments, I'm referring to the practices that I often see, in which the brewer does a single decoction, to create a temperature jump from 14X*F to 15X*F.
That's complete nonsense...Of course the decoction batch failed.
The brewer set it up to fail.

When I'm talking about decoctions...I'm talking about doing the real work...Nothing half-assed.
You need to actually employ the correct temperature steps, for the correct times, to make a real difference.

43
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 09:31:44 AM »
Hmmm...
Where to start...Let's see...

Here's a good start...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1999.tb00020.x/pdf

There are so many reasons to do step mashing...
When I've read through articles & experiments that make comparisons, they are typically configured in such a way that they are inherently flawed & seem to be TRYING to disprove the practice.
When decoctions are used correctly, you can not only taste the results, but you can smell, see & feel the results.
A simple single infusion with melanoidin malt will never get you in the ballpark of a correctly-executed triple decoction mash.
It's just not chemically, or physically possible.
We can disagree about this, forever.
It's not going to change the nature of the enzymatic activity that takes place.

If you're brewing a 75% Rahr 2-row beer, that's heavily hopped, it's probably not going to benefit you.

If you're brewing a 90% Floor malted Bohemian Pilsner beer, you're going to notice the difference, without even trying.
If you're doing a festbier that's based on a high percentage of Vienna malt, you're going to notice.


44
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 08:56:06 AM »
Sure...Sure...
I'm trying to find data that pertains to Kolbach index & says "This is why", rather than blindly following something that doesn't necessarily pertain to the batch of grain I'm using.

But, thank you, for your reply!

45
All Grain Brewing / Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« on: October 07, 2015, 08:52:23 AM »
Yes...I've read Kai's wiki, fairly extensively & was unable to find anything that relates to rest times, as they pertain to protein content.
Unless, maybe I missed it???

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 41