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Messages - Joe Sr.

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1
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 18, 2016, 10:25:27 AM »
I did a four gallon boil (or more like 3.5 after absorption in the grain) and topped off in the fermenter.

The additions were calculated for the mash and sparge amounts.

It's weird.  Some of my more critical tasters loved the beer, so it could be a taste threshold thing.

I wish I had more time to brew so I could do some comparison batches.

2
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 18, 2016, 07:37:54 AM »
You shouldn't have significant flavor issues with Briess extracts if you limit the gravity you get out of the extract to about 50 points. That keeps the sodium at reasonable level...assuming that your brewing water has low sodium.

1 ml per gal of 88% lactic is getting up there, but 'most' tasters wouldn't find that objectionable. However, I know that Supertasters might be able to detect it and possibly object to it. I'm a fan of Berliner Weisse, so I'm not one who would object to minor lactic levels. Others might not be as tolerant.

Thanks, Martin.  I'm mashing around 5 lbs minimum and adding the extract late.  I assume that the mash would be improved with the acid addition, but maybe I'm someone who can really taste lactic.

I served a keg of pale ale on Saturday, because I just wasn't sure about the wit. But the pale went quick, and I tapped the wit later.  The keg of wit floated in record time and people loved it, despite my reservations.  Perhaps it's just me...

3
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 15, 2016, 10:18:52 AM »
Good question, Joe. I only brewed a couple true partial mash beers before scaling up to AG, and I didn't adjust water back then (90's). But I'd assume that Briess' mineral content is high, sure seems that way. By keeping the mineral additions to a minimum it seems like you did the right thing. It's hard to advise without knowing Briess' exact mineral content.

I believe Martin has studied the mineral content of extract to some degree, or at least the water used for Breiss.

I've never gotten freaky flavors from their extract with un-treated partial mash water.

4
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 15, 2016, 09:25:02 AM »
I think the biggest thing is probably the minerals from the extract combined with those added for the water probably add up to the beer being overmineralized. I always used distilled or RO with extract to compensate for the exctract's content.
+1

So how would you handle a partial mash beer? 

Are you mashing with distilled water with no mineral additions?  Or minimal additions but no residual minerals from the base water?

Assume I'm a simpleton.  Please.

5
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 15, 2016, 09:15:55 AM »
I think the biggest thing is probably the minerals from the extract combined with those added for the water probably add up to the beer being overmineralized. I always used distilled or RO with extract to compensate for the exctract's content.

That's part of what I've been thinking, as I've never encountered this before with years of partial mash brewing.

Both beers are pretty light, so off flavors will stand out I suppose.

6
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 15, 2016, 08:59:36 AM »
I'd thought about dosing the water and tasting it.  I may need to do that.

As far as alkalinity, I don't know enough to tell you if it's highly alkaline water.  Reported total alkalinity is 114.

I'll need to taste the wit again tonight, but I think I might have just been paranoid and gotten a nasty yeast bite on the first taste.  Subsequent glasses tasted better, go figure.  There's a lingering bitterness, but I think that's from the bitter orange peel.

There's still something going on with the wheat that I don't really care for, but I may have used too much calcium chloride.  I brewed that before I got a more accurate gram scale.

7
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Off Flavors from Water Additions
« on: July 14, 2016, 06:02:08 PM »
I've only just started using Bru'nwater so my experience with water chemistry and additions is limited.

The last two batches I have brewed (a Bavarian wheat and a Belgian wit) I have used the yellow balanced profile and used additions of calcium chloride and lactic acid per the spreadsheet.

Both of these batches have tasted off to me.  It's hard to describe, but the wit has an odd bitterness and a bit of an oddness to the nose.  I thought it was maybe yeast at first (could be, I've only just tapped the keg) but I'm not so sure as it's not a yeast flavor I've gotten before.

Both batches have been partial mashes with pils and wheat supplemented with Breiss pils extract.

The lactic acid is old.  Maybe 10 years?  I have no recollection of where it came from, but it had been unopened until recently.

The wit is supposed to be served on Saturday at a party, but I'm not sure I can serve this beer.

Is it possible to get off flavors from water additions?  The additions were 0.4g of calcium chloride in each the mash and sparge water (2 gals each) and the lactic acid was 2ml in each.  These don't seem like significant amounts.

I recall that Breiss uses water that has high sodium (IIRC) but the beers don't taste salty.

I don't think these are infections.  The wheat beer had a milder off-flavor but no one else seemed to notice it.  I has not gotten worse over time.

Both beers were in different fermenters and different kegs.  I used the same racking can and tubing.

Is it possible to get off flavors like this from water additions?  I assumed these would be improving the beer, but right now I'm regretting doing them.

8
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Why Do You Homebrew?
« on: July 14, 2016, 08:46:21 AM »
I think we should re-start the argument about sunk costs, opportunity costs, and the intrinsic value of our time.

9
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 supply source and gas filtration
« on: July 13, 2016, 05:11:34 PM »
I use heirloom co2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10
Beer Recipes / Re: first saison
« on: July 13, 2016, 11:54:53 AM »
When does the mythical stall rear up? or phrased better, when should I bother taking the first gravity test?

And how long does one age a Saison before drinking?

The stall comes with 3724.  Since you used Belle you shouldn't have to worry.

I like my saisons fresh, but they always taste better as the keg is running out.  I'd say they're at their best after three weeks in the keg.

11
Beer Recipes / Re: first saison
« on: July 13, 2016, 10:49:14 AM »
I certainly wouldn't recommend 3724 for a first saison attempt.  It's just too darn needy.

I'm not familiar with Belle, but 3711 is easy to use and I like the results I get.

12
Beer Recipes / Re: Jever Clone
« on: July 13, 2016, 10:42:31 AM »

Not trying to be argumentative or derail the thread, but I've stopped following those threads.  Are people making better beer following this process?  Is there any consensus?  Or is it still a hotly debated theory?  Just curious.  I have some lagers planned for my line up but I don't really plan to follow this method anyway.

And have they done any real testing or is it just "oh, my beer is so much better now".

You've sort of distilled my question to it's essence there.  It seems like a lot of people are trying it (and Brewtan B) but I don't know if there's any consensus on results. 

But I don't want to do a full de-rail of this thread, which is where this is going.  Sorry!

13
Beer Recipes / Re: Jever Clone
« on: July 12, 2016, 07:11:24 PM »
I've never even gotten it fresh here in the US. And in green bottles...no bueno.

Process-wise, much debate over that... brew with degassed water, keeping dissolved O2 low throughout process, step mash 30 minutes at 145F, raise to 162F for 30-60 minutes. Boil 60 minutes, chill to 45F, ferment at 48F for a week or so. Raise to 60F for a day or two, then keg or drop it down slowly to the 30's and lager.

You'll have many different opinions on this.

Is that what Jever does?
Does anyone know what Jever does? This is what I would do.  And I'll bet Jever does at least 50% of that.

Not trying to be argumentative or derail the thread, but I've stopped following those threads.  Are people making better beer following this process?  Is there any consensus?  Or is it still a hotly debated theory?  Just curious.  I have some lagers planned for my line up but I don't really plan to follow this method anyway.

14
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Oktoberfest Ale
« on: July 11, 2016, 08:16:52 PM »
To the OP - you could also consider a simple fermenter box made of insulated foam insulation held together with some duct tape in which to put your fermenter or water bath for the fermenter.  It need not be fancy - indeed I know of guys that lager that way all the time.  With switching out frozen water bottles, you can lager pretty reliably, especially in a cool basement, if you have access to that.

Then you can use any lager yeast....

http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/son-of-fermentation-chiller/

If your ambient air is cool enough (maybe not so easy this time of year) I've found it's easier just to put the fermenter in a rubbermaid tub filled with water and add frozen 1 liter ice bottles.  I cover it with pink foam insulation, but if you could wrap it with that stuff it would work even better.  Low tech, but it works.  Better yet would be a cooler that fits a carboy.

15
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Why Do You Homebrew?
« on: July 11, 2016, 08:05:52 PM »
Chicks dig it.

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