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Messages - Joe Sr.

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1381
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: 2-step starters
« on: January 27, 2015, 08:29:47 AM »
I have no large mason jars, but I have plenty of growlers.

I will use those on occasion, but I've frown used to my flasks.  I'll use a growler for a starter on a really big beer if I don't do a "small" batch first to grow up some yeast.

1382
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Secondary Fermentation... or not?
« on: January 26, 2015, 07:55:48 PM »
I have experienced exactly this problem with the least flocculent cells.  I have found that after a few generations of harvested yeast, I sometimes wind up with batches that will not clear.

That's a major drawback of not being able to draw from the middle layer from a conical when repitching.

Racking can be used to select for flocculaton characteristics.  For example, one can end up with a crop that is more flocculent on average than the original yeast culture by racking early.  If one keeps racking early and cropping from the primary, one can often make the culture progressively more flocculent.  The transformation may not happen in a batch or two, but it will happen because one is cropping the most flocculent cells when one racks early and crops from the primary.

If you have the opportunity to watch a top-cropping brewery in action, you will see that they usually skim and discard the first head, which is known as the "brown head."  The second yeast head is skimmed and used to pitch the next batch.

Yes.  AFter some serious non-flocculant selection after sequential cropping I've changed to taking one big crop (2nd gen) and using that to build starters for subsequent batches.  So far, better luck.

1383
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: 2-step starters
« on: January 26, 2015, 05:20:22 PM »
Me? Because it works, it's consistent, and I don't need to go buy three liter flasks.

If it ain't broke I choose not to fix it.

But I assume your were asking the OP.

1384
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: 2-step starters
« on: January 26, 2015, 03:45:47 PM »
Is there a reason to have a week or so in between steps?  I don't think it's beneficial but it may not be harmful.

I do two step starters as a general practice.  When the first step is done, I crash, decant, and add the wort for the second step.  I time this to be ready for brewing when the second step is done.  Usually, I will crash the second step the night before or morning of brew day.

Maybe a 5 days total in between starting and finishing both steps. 

1385
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Secondary Fermentation... or not?
« on: January 26, 2015, 03:06:00 PM »
One of the big reasons why I still use a secondary is that it allows me to crop higher quality yeast.  The yeast cells that are still in suspension at racking time are the least flocculent cells, some of which may be petite mutants.  Carrying these cells over to the next fermentation can have a negative effect on fermentation.

I have experienced exactly this problem with the least flocculent cells.  I have found that after a few generations of harvested yeast, I sometimes wind up with batches that will not clear.

My SOP on harvesting is to swirl up the yeast from the primary and pour into sanitized containers.

No big deal, as they clear with time and gelatin, but sort of PITA.  It lets me know when to get some fresh yeast.

1386
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Never Ending Krausen
« on: January 26, 2015, 10:28:27 AM »
does anyone see a difference in krausen between liquid and dry yeast?  i typically use liquid, just used dry on my last batch, and was worried when i didn't need a blowoff tube (s05 in place of my typical cali ale yeast).  still hit FG, so i'm pumped, but wondering if this is typical.

The biggest difference I have noted is from fermentation temp.  Warmer temp = bigger krausen.  Lower temp = smaller krausen.  Same yeasts, same recipes.

1387
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Fermentation Experiment
« on: January 24, 2015, 07:48:06 PM »
FWIW, this experiment will be repeated with WY1214, which is one of the most temp sensitive yeasts I've ever run across.

We have finally found something on which we both agree. The Chimay strain is like a cantankerous old mule that will kick you if it gets the opportunity to do so.  It has to be one step away from being a wild strain.

Well...That sounds like a challenge...WY1214 is in the cart...any hints?

Don't ferment it hot.  I'd keep it in the low 60s.

1388
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Faster Finished Beer
« on: January 24, 2015, 06:17:21 PM »
FTR I can have a bee carbed up in 10 minutes with a corny keg.

You lost me there.  I've never put bees in my kegs, but it sounds interesting.

1389
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Bottled Guinness with no widget
« on: January 24, 2015, 01:16:59 PM »
The bottles haven't has the widget for some time.

Cans still do.  At least I know the Murphy's cans do, as I'm sucking one down right now.

1390
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Faster Finished Beer
« on: January 24, 2015, 01:10:38 PM »

I've had a Boulevard Wheat clone ready to pour from the keg on day 10.  I force carb at 40psi for 20-24 hours as long as the beer is warm when it goes into the keg.  It will carb faster than that if the beer is already cold.
You're saying warm is faster?

No colder beer carbs faster.  Unfortunately I found out from experience even though I knew better.

Cold beer carbs faster with forced carbonation.  Bottle conditioning, I would keep it warm for a couple weeks at least.  Colder is slower if you're bottle conditioning.

1391
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: commerical schwarzbier examples
« on: January 23, 2015, 10:44:37 AM »
Does Xingu qualify?  Damn good black beer.

Haven't had Moenshof, but Koestritzer is very good.  Binny's used to carry this in the 5L mini-kegs.  Maybe they still do.

1392
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
« on: January 23, 2015, 08:26:50 AM »
This isn't the most helpful description of it, but I just don't know what to say about it other than it's just odd. If you've tried that T-58 yeast, you'll get it. That's another weirdo yeast. Sour, pepper, weird. Abbaye isn't like T58 in any way, except both are weird.

I've only used T-58 once and that was for a quick saison.  I thought it turned out nicely.  I don't have any notes, but lightly sour and pepper sounds about right.  Nice for a saison, but I don't think so nice for a dubbel.  The right tool for the right job, and all that.

I think the bigger problem is that the yeast companies try to market these dry strains as appropriate for a wide style of beers when, in truth, they aren't.  No one would tell you to make a dubbel with 3724 or 3711, but they make great saisons.  No one would tell you to make saison with Chimay yeast.

1393
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: first use old yeast
« on: January 23, 2015, 08:01:19 AM »
Be patient, it will start.   I just sub-cultured two slants from a 13-month-old Scottish and Newcastle slant.

so its expected it will take longer-again, have not ever used yeast this old before.  thanks

Yes.  Expect that it will take longer, but the results should be just fine.

You can grow viable pitchable quantities from the dregs of one bottle of beer.  Growing a starter from an older vial of yeast should not be an issue.

1394
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Just say "no" to yeast rinsing
« on: January 22, 2015, 09:22:19 PM »
No doubt. I see no negatives to wiping with alcohol. I'd like to say I'll do it but since I haven't had any issues  I'm  just as likely to slack.

1395
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: how long on the yeast cake
« on: January 22, 2015, 03:39:23 PM »
Cool.  I'll look for that thread.  I don't care for brett, so I may have skipped the thread if it was referenced.

FWIW, I typically build up a starter from my slurries so that may help reduce any impacts from older stressed yeast from the previous ferment.  But that would only further complicate your ability to gauge percentages.

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