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Messages - Craft Meister

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16
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 27, 2016, 08:42:59 PM »
Another thought - is the product affected by water composition?  I have hard, iron rich well water at my house, so I use RO for brewing.  Is the hard water just as good as soft water for Iodophor use, or would softened, but not RO, be a better base water for the solution?

Thanks for the great info!

We developed BTF Iodophor in Winona, MN, an area with very hard, high alkaline water on the Mississippi River.  There are very few exceptions where a high alkaline pH of your water can impact how the solution behaves, but these are rare.  If you're able to, I would suggest using your softened water from your tap (I do this at home in a hard water area) and I think you'll get more than adequate results.

17
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 27, 2016, 05:08:19 PM »
I have access to 10% povidone-iodine solution.  How is this different?  Can it be used in a similar manner to iodophor?  On the package it states that it has 1% titratable iodine.  Inactive ingredients are listed as citric acid, disodium phosphate, nontoxynol-9 and sodium hydroxide.

I have this formula for the dilution of iodophor:   V = (0.0025*19L)/XX% where XX is the concentration of your solution, 0.0025 is 25ppm as a percentage, 19L is approximately 5 gallons, and V is the volume of your solution you need to add to five gallons of water.

If it is ok to use, do I base the dilution on the titratable percentage of 1% or 10%?

Thanks for your help!

Mac

Mac, great question!
 
First off, povidone-iodine solution is different than BTF Iodophor in that povidone is an FDA regulated, topical antiseptic, “medicine” regulated product.  BTF Iodophor is an EPA/pesticide regulated surface sanitizer product.  They both deliver Iodine to kill microbes, but are regulated by different entities for different purposes.  Povidone-iodine is a ready-to-use product not necessarily designed to be diluted, BTF Iodophor is a concentrate designed to be diluted to a usage strength solution.

As an EPA registered manufacturer, we cannot suggest using a product outside of its intended, labeled use.  There is a statement on our packaging that indicates “It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.”  Typically, federal authorities have other concerns than to beat down your door if you used a BTF Iodophor solution in an emergency medical situation or use a diluted povidone solution to sanitize your homebrewing equipment, but as a representative of a company that is regulated by the EPA, I can’t condone usage of a product that’s outside of its intended use.

Speaking strictly in terms of chemical activity, providone-iodine solutions diluted to 25 PPM may produce a solution that delivers enough available Iodine to kill microbes on the surface of your carboy/keg/container.  However, the formulation of povidone and its other ingredients are not identical to BTF Iodophor, which is butoxy polypropoxy polyethoxy ethanol-iodine complex in a 1.6% titratable Iodine solution.  I can’t verify that other ingredients in povidone, such as citric acid, disodium phosphate, nontoxynol-9 and sodium hydroxide will impact the quality of your finished beer if any residual solution enters your beverage. Ultimately, you would deliver kill strength Iodine, but you are introducing other factors.
 
So, in conclusion, if you try using povidone and don’t notice any ill effects and it doesn’t ruin your beer, more power to you.  However, if you want a guaranteed Iodine sanitizer that has been designed, tested and regulated for sanitizing beverage contact surfaces, BTF Iodophor is the preferred tool for the job.  Povidone may behave differently when in a diluted solution, such as foaming and not draining properly, whereas BTF Iodophor solution will sheet off your surface with minimal foam, drain quickly, and minimize the potential impact of residual available Iodine.

18
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 27, 2016, 03:32:28 PM »
I understand the required contact time of 2 minutes, but must the surface dry completely before use?  Are there flavor impacts if the fermenter, keg-- whatever-- is still wet?

In my experience, using a carboy/keg/bottle that still has a few residual drops of BTF Iodophor in it, at a proper usage rate of 12.5 PPM, has no flavor impact.  I do this routinely and can't taste any Iodine.  A few stray drops of usage strength solution in a large volume of beer results in a potential concentration of Iodine in the parts per billion range.  With solution greater than 12.5 PPM, I cannot guarantee this.

In a perfect world, air drying is suggested.  However, shaking or dripping dry with a little residual solution isn't the end of the world.

Please see the article I linked earlier - here's a brief quote from the conclusion: http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=384

"Summary

Both testers easily detected iodophor in distilled water when the level of iodophor was 4 times “normal”.

Neither tester could find the iodophor in distilled water at twice the “normal level”.

Neither tester could detect iodophor contamination in SNPA at 8 times the “normal level”.

NOTE: by “normal level”, I mean the amount of iodophor that would be present when draining, (but not air-drying), a carboy as described earlier in this article.
Conclusion

I guess I won’t be rinsing carboys after sanitizing with iodophor anymore! There just isn’t any need to. Simply draining the carboy of the iodophor solution left only 1 teaspoon of solution behind and no tester could detect iodophor even when the samples were contaminated with the equivalent of 8 teaspoons."

19
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 26, 2016, 10:05:53 PM »
Does sunlight exposure affect the Iodophor in solution - i.e., does it degrade more quickly in sunlight?  Can it be stored in solution for any length of time and retain effectiveness , if covered in a white food grade bucket with lid or put into a spray bottle?

Typically storing a solution of Iodophor does not last very long.  In an uncovered container, most of the available Iodine will gas off to the atmosphere in about 24-48 hours and you'll be left with clear water and no more amber Iodine color.  Covered or in a spray bottle, you may get longer than that.  As for UV light exposure, I don't have any timed trials that express how much faster a solution will degrade, but that's something I can look into.

My best advice is to make small amounts of solution every time you have a beer related task - it's very easy to measure and mix a 1.5 gallon batch of solution when racking, kegging, sampling, or bottling.  I understand the convenience of the spray bottle (especially for Star San) for spot cellar related tasks, but the only true way to evaluate the strength of your stored solution of Iodophor is with Iodine test strips.  As long as you have at least 12.5 PPM, you're good to go.

20
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 26, 2016, 08:45:41 PM »
What's the best temp?  I'd never heard it wasn't to be mixed with hot water.  My usual procedure is to wash my bottles and then sanitize with iodophor mixed with hot water the day before I actually bottle.

BTF Iodophor is designed to be mixed into cool water.  Avoid using hot water when mixing a solution.  Hot water temperatures encourage the Iodine to gas off into the atmosphere at an increased rate, diminishing the strength of your solution very rapidly.

The other reason cool water is great is that it doesn't cause the interior of your bottles or other containers to steam up - the steam makes it harder to dry your surface properly.  The cool solution will just sheet right off and drip out rapidly.

21
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 26, 2016, 07:49:51 PM »
Ok, so 12.5 ppm concentration is used for no rinse. Recommended contact time is one minute ?

Yes, 12.5 PPM is the desired strength for a sanitize solution.  Per the label, we suggest 2 minutes of contact time for sanitizing.  However, "wet time" contributes to contact time - what that means in practical use is you can partially fill your container with solution, swirl around to contact all of the surfaces for 15-30 seconds, then invert to drain.  The time spent draining and drip drying is going to be greater than 2 minutes, thus satisfying the contact time.

Usage rates for 12.5 PPM:

1 tsp in 1.5 gallons of water
1/4 oz (1/2 Tablespoon) in 2.5 gallons of water
1/2 oz (1 Tablespoon) in 5 gallons of water

Hope this helps!

22
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Anyone use Iodophor for cleaning?
« on: January 26, 2016, 05:46:01 PM »
Drew and I have a relationship woith the makers of BTF iodophor (disclaimer there) but I'm sure I could get someone from the company to come on and answer questions if people like.

Fire away!  I'd be happy to answer questions regarding BTF Iodophor.  I'll start with a couple of great resources.

Here is a link to Basic Brewing Radio with our Executive VP, Murl Landman, discussing BTF Iodophor and cleaning and sanitizing in general from march 27, 2007:

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/b/1/c/b1cb72896745255c/bbr03-22-07.mp3?c_id=1452158&expiration=1453834261&hwt=0c36a3b9158b3c5bc63e35eb25043870

Someone already linked another great reference from the Bay Area Mashers featuring an interview with Dr. Chuck Landman, but here's the link again:

http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=384

23
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: oxygen cleaners
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:50:51 PM »
Nope, you're not.  The alkaline kicks butt.  It works better mixed with cold water than PBW does in hot water.   When you put the alkaline in hot water it's truly remarkable.  But not everyone wants to use an alkaline cleaner.  The Oxygen cleaner still works better than PBW.  They source their percarbonate from the chemical industry, not the laundry industry, and it dissolves at a lower temp than PBW.

Denny has it right!

Any questions regarding Craft Meister, private message me.  Better yet, try it for yourself.

24
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Iodophor suck back in cold crash.
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:49:31 PM »
Interesting discussion.  But here's another angle to view it from. How many would brew a beer recipe that called for iodine? Not me. It was an oopsy and I wouldn't drink it. I wonder how many people that say they would drink it, would also say that they would not drink a BMC if their life depended on it. Seems counterintuitive. Im in the dump it and learn the lesson camp.
But Jim, there are a lot of things we put into beer that I would not want to consume straight.  Does your beer call for lactic acid or gelatin or calcium chloride?
Fortunately my life does not depend on what beer I am going to drink, but it makes sense to me to taste a sample before tossing the batch.

I'd be more worried about a half a gallon of nasty blow off water than I would the iodine.  Who knows what lands in a blow off bucket?

I'd still probably taste it before dumping it.

Iodophor does not stay dissolved in solution for a very long time, maybe 24-48 hours, if not in a sealed container.  If the blow off bucket was exposed to to the atmosphere, it's likely that the vast majority of the Iodophor has returned to the atmosphere.  Was the blow off solution clear, or still an amber color?  If it was clear, there's little to no Iodophor left.  It may be hard to tell if there's a lot of yeast in the blow off bucket.

Adding this amount of solution back to the beer will cause more problems with flavor dilution and scum from the blow off than human toxicity from residual Iodophor, IMO.

25
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Oxy clean question
« on: February 11, 2015, 03:57:58 PM »


I understand this is an inquiry regarding Oxi Clean, but just wanted to throw in a suggestion to evaluate our Craft Meister Oxygen Brewery wash if you can find some in your homebrew supply chain.

1+ I have used this and I do like it better than either PBW or Oxiclean.  It dissolves much easier than PBW.  The problem is availability!  I often get the Craft Meister O2 BW from the prize packs I get from various homebrew competitions.  (Thanks for your support.)  Unfortunately, I have never seen the Craft Meister products in any of our LHBS.

That's a valid point and that's why I have a job!  We are actively trying to grow the market presence of Craft Meister and a key factor in that growth is demand for our product from consumers.  Many home brew stores are reluctant to carry a product they are not familiar with or that they feel will "not sell."  If you feel comfortable doing so, please message me with some further information and I can try and contact your local shops to have some conversations.

Thank you for your support.

26
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Oxy clean question
« on: February 09, 2015, 05:39:47 PM »
I have always used the oxi free but walking thru sams club they have a box of regular oxi clean is this useable for cleaning or should I stick with the oxi free

I understand this is an inquiry regarding Oxi Clean, but just wanted to throw in a suggestion to evaluate our Craft Meister Oxygen Brewery wash if you can find some in your homebrew supply chain.  The base percarbonate is there for the Oxi Clean effect, but we blend agents into Craft Meister that boost the alkaline pH to loosen soils rapidly and to make the cleaner easier to rinse away with less effort and no risk of chalky white build up on your gear.  You might pay a little more, but the extra investment is returned in ease of use and effectiveness.

Cheers!

27
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: New cleaning products
« on: January 29, 2015, 05:05:01 PM »
Two quick questions, Jonathon.

When you say hot water for the Craft Meister Keg & Carboy Cleaning Tablets, what's the temp range considered to be?  Only ask as I use Better Bottles and they can only take up to 120°.  My hot water heater is set for around 135-140° so I back off the temp and as I don't bother to check it I might be as low as 100°.

What's the product availability?  In other words, how soon before I might see this in my LHBS?  The less I have to buy online, the happier I am.

Thanks.

I ran the majority of my R&D testing on the Carboy Tablets at 115-120 degree water.  They should work fine at that temperature.  Lower than 100 is not highly recommended - the tablets will dissolve much slower at lower temperatures.

As for availability, the Keg & Carboy Tablets have been for sale through the BSG HandCraft catalog for about six weeks, since mid-December.  If your LHBS does business with BSG, they should be easy to order in.  If your shop doesn't carry them, give them a reason to and ask for them!  I'd be happy to talk to your shop and answer any questions, just let me know what I can do to help.

28
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: New cleaning products
« on: January 28, 2015, 09:44:54 PM »
Jonathon, in what situations would I use the alkaline cleaner instead of the oxygen cleaner?

Denny, this is probably the #1 question I field on a regular basis.

Craft Meister Oxygen (CMO) and Craft Meister Alkaline (CMA) were each designed to be a stand alone brewery cleaner product.  Each cleaner has an alkaline pH in solution due to sodium metasilicate and other alkaline agents, but the big difference is that CMO is blended with a large percentage of sodium carbonate, the "oxi clean" chemical, whereas CMA does not contain percarbonate.  Both CMO and CMA compare to Five Star PBW and Logic Straight A in effectiveness and price, but each Craft Meister Product has been designed to have unique advantages.

CMO is great for cleaning primary fermenters.  The active oxygen does a great job at loosening krausen rings from carboys and the alkaline punch from metasilicate aids in breaking down organic solids.  The oxygen will be active for roughly 60 minutes in solution until all of the percarbonate has finished doing its job.  I like to call CMO Oxiclean on steroids for home brewers.  It has all the visual and effective benefits of Oxi, but we also blend in agents that allow it to rinse away a whole lot easier and we also have agents in the powder that prevent chalky mineral scale build up.  Percarbonate, when it breaks down, leaves carbonate ions behind that easily bond with free calcium in high mineral water leaving behind a white chalky film over time - CMO has been designed to prevent this from happening.  Not suggested for use on aluminum.

CMA is a non-caustic alkaline cleaner.  It works in all water conditions - hard or soft, cold or hot.  It has the benefits of a professional style caustic cleaner while being much more gentle on your skin and hands and won't cause harsh chemical burns.  Unlike CMO, there is no percarbonate that foams up and gives a visual queue that the cleaner is working.  This also means the CMA is a great option for those that like a "set it and forget it soak it overnight" approach because the cleaner will not lose effectiveness over time.  I use CMA at home to soak clean my kegs and kettles.  It is also the best powdered cleaner that I've personally used to strip stubborn bottle labels from beer and wine bottles.  Avoid using on aluminum!

In conclusion - either Craft Meister cleaner will function well to clean anything in your home brew system.  If you have both, there are jobs that I prefer one cleaner over the other for, but each cleaner is a stand alone product.

29
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: New cleaning products
« on: January 28, 2015, 08:28:21 PM »
I'd be more than happy to field and answer any questions regarding the Craft Meister and BTF Iodophor products that National Chemicals, Inc. manufactures.

Do you sell any products that are effective at removing beerstone?

Thanks.

Beerstone is a tricky soil to deal with.  Calcium Oxalate, formally known, is the result of the interaction of oxalates derived from plants (especially hops) and calcium in brewing water.  It can deposit in kettles, fermenters and beer lines.  We make a couple of products that can be effective for removing beer stone, which is a stubborn mineral best attacked with acids.  Alkaline detergents are not effective at removing beer stone.

DBC Lime and Mineral Solvent (http://nationalchemicals.com/dbc_mineral_and_lime_solvent-152-information.html) can be used to reduce or remove mineral build up from hard water and is moderately effective at removing beer stone.

If you have beer stone deposits in draft lines, we make ALC Acid Post Wash (http://nationalchemicals.com/alc_acid_post_wash_for_draft_lines-133-information.html) which can be used occasionally after running one of our alkaline beer line cleaners through your lines.  It is a strong acid, take extreme care when handling this product.

30
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: New cleaning products
« on: January 28, 2015, 07:36:06 PM »
I've asked Jonathan Ettlie from Craftmeister to join this thread to answer questions.  He will not be selling or advertising the product here.  If anyone has a problem with his posts, please contact me.

Thank you Denny.  Hello guys, this is Jonathan, the "Brewing Ambassador" (AKA Brand Manager) from Craft Meister chemicals.  I would like to be active on this forum as a product expert and someone that can offer assistance and answer questions about cleaning and sanitizing.  I'd be more than happy to field and answer any questions regarding the Craft Meister and BTF Iodophor products that National Chemicals, Inc. manufactures.

Cheers!

Hi Jonathon and welcome,
I'd like to know what the recommended dosages are for cleaning: kettles, kegs, carboys? Also how this would work in a CIP environment and what dose you would recommend for that..

There are multiple Craft Meister products that you could use for the tasks in question here.  We make two powdered cleaners, Craft Meister Oxygen Brewery Wash and Craft Meister Alkaline Brewery Wash.  Our new product is a pre-measured tablet that is a unique blend of both of our powdered cleaners compressed into an easy to use tablet.

The usage rate for both Oxygen and Alkaline Brewery Wash powders for cleaning kegs, carboys, bottles, fittings and other general cleaning is 1 oz per gallon.  We include a scoop in the containers, which translates to 2 scoops per gallon of warm-hot water.  Soak for at least 20 minutes or until clean, then rinse thoroughly and sanitize if required.

For cleaning kettles, which can often have harder to clean caramelized sugars and solids, we suggest up to 2 oz per gallon (four scoops), but this is at your preference.

For CIP systems, either the Alkaline or Oxygen Brewery Wash can be used at 1 oz per gallon.  The Alkaline Brewery Wash may foam with heavy agitation through pumps and spray heads, but has more staying power in solution for a longer time because it does not feature any sodium percarbonate oxygen release chemistry.

The Craft Meister Keg & Carboy Cleaning Tablets are easy to use.  For kegs, fill with hot water and use one tablet per three gallons of water (so 2 tablets for a 5 gallon Corny Keg).  For Carboys, fill with hot water, add 2 tablets per 3 gallons of water (4 tablets for 6 gallons).  Soak for at least 60 minutes, or until you reach desired results.  Rinse thoroughly, then sanitize as needed.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!

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