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Messages - morticaixavier

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4351
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Starsan after BLC
« on: December 19, 2012, 08:42:36 AM »
I would worry that you are potentially re-introducing contaminants with the rinse water. yes the caustic probably killed everything in the line but what's in your tap water?


4352
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Keg Virgin Questions
« on: December 19, 2012, 08:37:05 AM »
No it wasn't mentioned. I replaced all the O rings yesterday. Would Olive Oil work for this?

euge swears by olive oil. I have actually never had a problem with my O-rings seating so I can't speak to it directly

4353
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« on: December 19, 2012, 08:35:46 AM »
Quote
with crystal malts the conversion is done. with roasted it is not...

I might be confused...

I was under the impression that roasted grains had no diastatic power and the sugars (although in low quantities) were converted during the roasting process. This is the reason that they do not need to be mashed.

Am I off the mark in this one? This seems like a pretty basic concept that I would really want to verify my comprehension of...

It is true that roasted grain has no diastatic power, but the starches are not converted. With crystal malts there is a 'mash' step in the processing where the green malt is stewed at high sach rest temps before being lightly (or not so lightly) kilned to dry. Thus when you split open a kernal of crystal malt you find that lovely little nugget of caramel. With roasted malts the green malt is kilned at a very high temp for a goodly long time. This destroys the enzymes but does not convert the starches into sugars. The starches when exposed to enzymes in the mash from the base malt are then converted to sugar. but the amounts you use in any normal recipe are so small that if you are using extract or adding the roasted malt at the end of the mash, or cold steeping you do not lose many gravity points over mashing normally.

4354
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« on: December 18, 2012, 02:28:40 PM »
Some roasty flavor definitely still comes through in a cold steep, but it is less bitter and somewhat muted.

hmmm,

well my next dark beer is a tested recipe and I don't want to mess with it (NHC bound) but I will have to try this in the near future. sort of means a double (or triple) brew day or two (or three) brew days close enough to each other to fairly evaluate the differences of the dark malt addition timing/method.

4355
Equipment and Software / Re: Rolling boil gathers no moss...?
« on: December 18, 2012, 01:52:51 PM »
some of the newer electric stoves are beasts. I have a BIG element on my electric stove, meant for big pasta pot type boils that will make water jump out of the pot. It's about 14-16 inches across and if you crank it you can feel the heat across the kitchen.
:o
That is a huge element.  I never had (and have never seen) an electric burner more than half that size.

Okay, looking at it once I got home it's maybe 12-14 inches across but it is still a beast. The other three elements on the stove are LED based I think, looking at them they appear to be clusters of small elements in the traditional spiral pattern but the big one looks like a classic one piece element, just under the surface glass.

4356
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« on: December 18, 2012, 10:14:17 AM »
The main benefit of a cold steep is that you are not extracting the harsh astringency often associated with roasted grains mashed at a high temperature.

Gordon mitigates this a couple of ways. He does the cold steep (which I really like).

Another thing to try is to acidify your mash to below a pH of 6.0. The harshness comes out when the grains are exposed to a pH greater than 6.0 and a water temperature of over 170 degrees. This is the combination to avoid. He also is a big advocate of adding the roasted or even crystal malts to the vorlauf, minimizing the contact time with the mash and simply allowing for the sugars to be rinsed off.  Remember for crystal and roasted malts, the conversion is already done. You are simply rinsing the sugars off.

If you have a pH of less than 6.0, you can sparge with water at 170 for as long as you want without risk of astringency.

Hope that helps with ways to handle those dark grains. Try them both.

with crystal malts the conversion is done. with roasted it is not, but you don't care because the amount of sugar they offer is minimal, they are really only there for color and flavour.

I haven't tried the cold steep thing yet. I am hesitant because i LIKE the roasty flavour and I would hate to lose that in a stout or porter. I try to keep my pH in line so I don't get harsh astringency but I still want roasty flavour.

Does any roast come through with the cold steep? how about the late mash addition?

4357
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: 1.072 to 1.050
« on: December 18, 2012, 10:10:03 AM »
I think a starter might be a good idea as the yeast might also be a bit stressed by the high gravity environment they are coming from.

I might also be a bit worried about color carryover, but making a starter with just a couple table spoons of slurry would probably help with that as well.

4358
Equipment and Software / Re: Going Fermometer?
« on: December 18, 2012, 10:07:39 AM »
I have just recently discovered the concept of Fermometers for your fermentation bucket or carboy. Is there anyone out there that has used these before and if so are they worth a try?

you mean the stick on LCD strips? I love them. I have one on every bucket. They are suprisingly accurate. The main drawback is that if you submerge one in water for an extended period it will stop working. but they only cost a couple bucks so...

4359
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2 questions
« on: December 17, 2012, 09:14:52 PM »
Ok, I did the Ovaltine brew and... yuck!!!  The stuff smelled alright when boiling, with the malty cocoa-like flavor mixing with the orange peels, but now that it is fermenting it just smells like something awful.  I will let it ferment and then try it, and then I will probably just dump it.  And by the way, this brew was probably more expensive than just using DME.  Oh well, I wasn't planning on anything spectacular, I just like messing around to see what I can, and can not do.   ;)

I didn't say it would be good! did you use the plane ovaltine or the chocolate? I am curious to hear how it actually turns out!

4360
Equipment and Software / Re: Rolling boil gathers no moss...?
« on: December 17, 2012, 10:43:18 AM »
There's no reason your gas stove should be that weak though - are you sure the gas pressure is where it is supposed to be?  It doesn't sound to me like the stove is working the way it should.
I used to have problems boiling 4G on my gas stove. I now have an electric stove that boils 6g easily. Different burner powers.
Weird, my electric stoves were always way under powered.  But then I started brewing outside long before we had a gas stove, so I guess I can't directly compare the two.

some of the newer electric stoves are beasts. I have a BIG element on my electric stove, meant for big pasta pot type boils that will make water jump out of the pot. It's about 14-16 inches across and if you crank it you can feel the heat across the kitchen.

4361
Sure they could stop buying bud if they didn't like it but they DO like it. I am just questioning WHY they like it. There is always an argument that 'if people didn't like it they wouldn't do it that way' but if I can make a product and convince lots of people they like it then I can keep making that product.

It sounds arrogant and condescending to say "You like what you like because you're brainwashed, while I like what I like because I have good taste."

I'm sure a lot of Bud drinkers think we're all pretentious suckers for paying $20 for one bottle of an infected, sour beer that's sat around in barrels for a year.

When did I say I like what I like because I have good taste? I'm just as susceptable to suggestion as the next guy.

4362
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Fermentation Temperature wih WLP028
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:54:22 PM »

very few ale yeasts will do well at 50-52 degrees.

Not relevant to 028, but I have a batch going with WY1007 at 52 and I'm getting blowoff from it.

Is that eqivalent to WLP029? That one does like it pretty cool.

4363
See it's gradual. You make gradual changes you your recipe when you DON'T want your consumers to notice. If you are doing it to pull in new customers you make the keystone "bitter beer face" ad campaign. I stick by my hypothesis that these changes are driven exclusivly by profit margins and not by quality concerns.

I am not saying that small artisinal brewers are doing it purely for the love of the thing but I am saying that the standards a company chooses to hold itself to has a lot to do with the end quality of their products. And the big boys in the industry choose to hold themselves to standards that seem more driven by profit motive than by taste.

I understand the point that customers don't necessarily ask for something, but if the products of the large conglomerates didn't meet a need, then people wouldn't buy them. No one asked for an iPod, but did Apple manipulate people into thinking they wanted one, or did they provide a product that met a need? It seems like you're saying that the big brewers are manipulating drinkers into drinking less flavorful beer (or did I misinterpret?), but I don't think they would have as much of the market as they do without meeting some kind of need.

The price of rice and corn are higher than malt, as pointed out by both August Schell and Stone Brewing's Mitch Steele in a recent interview on Basic Brewing Radio. That shoots a gaping hole through the "profit motive".

Companies (including brewers, regardless of their size) have a right to look for ways to make more money. You and I and everyone else have the right and the ability to choose or not choose their products.

I agree.  I fail to see how a gradual change indicates that there's been some nefarious long term plot by the big brewers to trick their customers into drinking something they wouldn't otherwise like.

Rather, I would bet it reflects a gradual change in consumer preferences.

Just because the big brewers are big doesn't mean they don't need to respond to the market.  US car makers learned that back in the 70s.

It's really not all that hard to make someone want something they didn't want before. happens all the time. Advertisers get paid a LOT of money to make people want something they didn't want before. However it's not black and white. Coke tried hard with 'New Coke' and failed. The people responsible for the campaign were sacked.

just because rice and corn are more expensive than malt RIGHT NOW doesn't mean that it was always or will always be true.

How many people taste beer, or coffee, or spicy food for the first time and love it right away? more often than not people continue to try things they don't really like because people they see and respect around them seem to be enjoying it.

Sure they could stop buying bud if they didn't like it but they DO like it. I am just questioning WHY they like it. There is always an argument that 'if people didn't like it they wouldn't do it that way' but if I can make a product and convince lots of people they like it then I can keep making that product.

4364
yeah, i gots to find some of their beer. i agree that it is somewhat off that corn and rice are adjuncts and that wheat and rye, oatmeal, etc get a pass.  i also believe that just because a beer hasn't had the hell hopped out of it (that sounds kind of naughty) that it isn't a good beer.

+1. nothing wrong with corn and rice in their place. I kind of like the hitacho nest red rice ale. and there are lots of low hop beers I like.

4365
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Fermentation Temperature wih WLP028
« on: December 14, 2012, 03:45:39 PM »
If you put it in a closet at 50-52F, the yeast will stay dormant.  It's too cold. 

Is that for ale yeasts in general or WLP028 specifically? I'm mostly worried about the yeast activity driving up the temperature for the first day or two.

very few ale yeasts will do well at 50-52 degrees. I would go with the 59-61 degree option and include a tub or water to moderate swings as much as possible. Different yeasts do have different temp ranges that they 'like' (and by like I mean that produce results that WE like) I think WLP028 likes it a bit cool. It is scottish after all ;) so it probably wears a kilt in winter time. When I did a 60-/ with that yeast I set my temp control at right around 59 and kept it there and it turned out well.

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