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Messages - brewsumore

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Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 20, 2017, 07:31:17 PM »
I thought I'd cap this little wandering mini-drama.  As with many things, finesse makes the difference between "works" vs. "I think it's broke".

So, since yesterday when I opened the ziplock on each still-partially-frozen bag about 2 inches to allow any of the retained so2 to diffuse out as they fully thawed and came to room temp, it took a lot longer for them to warm up than I expected.

Had I re-zipped the bags after 10 hrs exposure and let them fully warm up I'd have been ok.  Instead I let them go closer to 20 hrs since they were still cold - not ready to pitch.  When I last looked at them, the bits of pureed fruit near the opening had discolored/darkened from air ingress which made me wonder if they weren't also a bit microbially impacted.

My fix, as I have done in the past with homemade puree, was to pour all the bags (total 3 gallons) into a clean SS canning pot, heat the puree at just over medium heat to 150F, while stirring constantly so as not to set pectins at the bottom of the pot, and then held the puree at 150 - 151F for 15 minutes, again while stirring.
 Then I chilled down the pot of puree while stirring to the beer ferment temp (80F) in an ice water bath in the sink, and pitch it via a sanitized 1-pint measuring cup.

All is well at least.

Equipment and Software / Re: Genesis Fermenter
« on: September 20, 2017, 12:05:20 PM »
Is it plastic?

Equipment and Software / Re: Genesis Fermenter
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:53:29 PM »
I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:11:25 PM »
I ended up nice and tightly fitting the 6 thawing bags into a clean and sanitized sausage tub, of course faced with the zip lock up, and partly opened each bag tucked away in the basement where there's no cross breezes from heater vents, etc..  Come morning the puree will be room temp and unspilled and ready to go into the two awaiting fermenters, and I have basically no worry that they will have collected any significant off-flavor causing microbes.

One can think things through, but one shouldn't overthink things.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 04:56:20 PM »
Hmm, that's thought provoking.  Especially given that when fermenting on fruit it's recommended to keep the fermenter lid snapped down to prevent staling by 02 - of course with airlock or blowoff tube in place.  Meaning less ability for any gasses to easily off gas.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 04:14:19 PM »
Huh!  A very knowledgeable winery owner / wine maker on my winemaking forum just shared that Saccharomyces yeast isn't inhibited by so2 until at least 200 ppm.  That is very interesting.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 01:09:34 PM »
No need to let the fruit breathe while thawing.  An active fermentatation removes the SO2.

Cool!  I had pondered it from that angle, namely that active yeast in large numbers (active ferment) is enough to compensate for yeast shock, that would otherwise occur if the scenario was pitching at standard pitch rate at the beginning of fermentation in the presence of sulfited puree.

Thank you!  This means less exposure and fuss.  Once the puree is thawed and at room temp I'll just spritz the ziplock bags with star san, open them and dump in the fruit puree.

Ingredients / Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:12:54 AM »
I realize that when using sulfite that the recommended process is to sulfite fruit or puree, say to 50 ppm, let sit overnight (12 - 24 hrs) to dissipate the so2 and then add the fruit to primary or rack on top of it in secondary fermenter.

In this instance I pureed ripe plums (minus pits) when available and added sulfite to 50 ppm (.33 g pot meta per gallon of puree) to protect color, reduce wild yeast, and prevent browning, and then put it in gallon zip locks and immediately froze it for later use.

I'm wondering if upon thawing the puree if I need to open the bag tops and let the puree "breathe" for let's say 12 hrs, before fermenting, or if having frozen it for a few days that the so2 will already have dissipated.

The fruit puree will be added to actively fermenting saison in primary fermenters, so sacchromyces yeast tolerance of so2 is at the center of the question, and whether it dissipates during freezing so becomes a non-issue.

My hunch and general inclination is that I could thaw the full bags, open their zip tops for a few hours to let the puree breathe, and then add the puree to primary, but I wonder if the sulfite already dissipated during the few days in the freezer.

Thanks for any insight here.

Thanks Andor.  I was being conservative of use of equipment with the live culture, and I'm kinda lazy, but in fact have a very good lab pH meter that has a new electrode.

So I compared the ColorpHast strip reading with the pH meter reading and found that yes, the lower range ColorpHast strips also read ~.3 lower than the actual pH.


Does anybody know if these lower pH range ColorpHast strips, like the normally used 4.0 - 7.0 range strips, measure at .3 lower than the actual pH?

I'm monitoring a full volume wort lacto sour, to begin boil when I hit ~3.6pH.

I assume that is the case.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Imperial Rustic
« on: September 14, 2017, 03:33:27 PM »

4 weeks and that makes sense for bottle conditioning.  Back when I bottled I rarely had full carb in 2 weeks.  I would imagine if they thought extended aging was necessary that would be at least a few months.

Cool!  I'll pull my mostly carbed kegs from the kegerator and put them in the wine cellar for at least a couple weeks.  At kegging (1.005) it was amazingly clean and tasty, and much more balanced fruity (vs. fruit bomb) and did have underlying slight earthy and peppery elements - and thankfully I noticed a tad of bubble gum that snuck in with the 3724, that I hope will stick around.  Life is grand.

Thanks a bunch!  I'll be making a sour worted plum saison (plums added at the end of saison yeast ferment), so souring the full volume wort, followed by boiling the wort as normal.  Yes, I'd already planned to run off the mash/ sparge into my kettle and boil for 5 minutes before chilling to 92F and pitching the starter.

So I'll just target mash pH of 5.2 and call it good.  That makes more sense now too.  I plan to sour the full volume wort for ~1.5 days, or until I hit 3.6 pH, and then do the boil.


All Grain Brewing / drop wort pH via phosphoric acid prior to souring it?
« on: September 14, 2017, 04:57:08 AM »
I'll be sour worting this weekend.  I know that the common practice after collecting the mash runoff is to use lactic acid to drop pH to 4.0 to 4.4 (or 4.6) before pitching a starter into the wort to sour it.

I will be pitching 2000 ml of lacto starter made with WY 5335 Lactobacillus culture, into 13.5 gal wort, at ~92F.

I don't have any lactic acid on hand and was wondering if it would be ok to use phosphoric acid instead to drop the pH. 

I plan to treat my mash and sparge water to create a 5.2 pH wort as the starting wort.

Martin, are you there??!?!  :)

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: What's Brewing this Weekend?
« on: September 14, 2017, 04:22:22 AM »
This weekend I'll be re-pitching my saison yeast I saved (WY 3724 + Imperial Rustic) -- making 10 gallons of a sour worted plum saison. 

Friday after work I'll mash and then run off the mash/sparge into my kettle, heat and then boil for 5 minutes, chill to 90F with my new Jaded Hydra Chiller, run off to carboys, pitch the starter, and sour the wort for maybe 1.5 days -- until 3.6 pH, and then knockout as usual.

Only hop addition will be to add 2.7 oz of hops edit: (1 oz citra, 1.7 oz Loral) at flameout, for a 20 - 30 min hop stand (trying to get ~8 IBUs) before chilling to pitching temp (78F).

I have a starter of WY Lacto (5335) going at 93F, and yesterday pitted and pureed 30 lbs of plums, yielding 3 gallons of puree.  I added kmeta to 50 ppm and froze the puree in gallon ziplocks.  I'll time it to add that into the primary fermenters immediately after the initial ferment (day 5 maybe).  That is, I'll thaw them, open the bags to breathe for a few hours (to vent any remaining so2), and then pitch directly into the oversized primary fermenter buckets.  Once fermented out (expecting 10 - 14 days) I'll cold crash and rack to kegs.

This beer is based on Orpheus' Atalanta, although not exactly the same.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Pics of recent brews?
« on: September 10, 2017, 03:03:46 PM »
Looks great.  Prost!

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