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Messages - brewsumore

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Ingredients / Re: Source for quality dried bitter orange?
« on: September 28, 2017, 05:03:05 AM »
Does anyone who's used the Brewer's Best brand care to share if they think it is a good product?  It seems to be a primary brand out there.  Also what Great Fermentations sells.

Probably just fine - I guess I'll buy some from my LHBS and evaluate it.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Adding fruit...
« on: September 26, 2017, 01:55:29 AM »
As you say, don't use juice unless maybe cold press juice - it dries out the beer too much.  My belief is that it's as simple as marrying up mash temp (for a bodied beer probably at least 156F), the yeast, and use puree or crushed fruit in secondary for fresh flavor, or in primary added after initial ferment ends.

But then I'm big on not overthinking it.

Maybe up the chloride and pH in water management to accentuate maltiness that matches up to smooth fruit flavors.  I don't have enough experience with lambics to even say anything.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: What's Brewing this Weekend?
« on: September 25, 2017, 12:53:19 AM »
Brewing up a mystery Pils, using up some Munich, Vienna, and mostly pilsner malt so I can make room for a sack of Maris otter. Nugget for bittering, crystal for aroma. Should be interesting. Any recommendations on fermentation schedule for 34/70? I've done it cold and warm before, but want a second opinion. Planning on pitching 2 packs for 6 gallons.

I really like Jamil's cold ferment schedule IIRC pitch at 47 - 48F, over 48 hrs ramp to 50F and hold it there until done.  No need for a diacetyl rest this way.  Depending on your OG you might want three packets.  It's always worked for me and I love the beer with this method.

Ingredients / Re: Source for quality dried bitter orange?
« on: September 24, 2017, 11:29:28 PM »
I've used these guys but to tell the truth I didn't shop around because I consider it a commodity without much difference between one supplier and another

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's a nice closeup photo.  Do you recall if, when you bought it, what they sent was Brewer's Best which seems to be the primary provider in their herbs and spices section.

In my experience I've bought some that had a lot of pith and big pieces that was pretty blah, and I have some that I got from another provider that is fairly fine ground with very little white pith, but they since have gone to Brewer's Best, which is unknown to me.

In Radical Brewing, which was published a long time ago, Mosher recommends avoiding commercially purchased bitter orange peel since it typically can be bitter or flavorless, but I've heard some different opinions, and am wondering if there is some tried and true product out there somewhere.

My understanding is that some of the taste characteristics of actual bitter orange, found in some authentic Belgian ales, etc., such as its floral qualities, cannot be replicated by substituting a combination of fresh sweet orange peel plus a lesser amount of grapefruit peel like many brewers use, and as recommended by Mosher in Radical Brewing.

I'm trying to see what options there are for more successfully imitating Belgian brews that use it, and just a feel for a good source.

I also emailed the supplier you metioned to see what is the source they use.

Ingredients / Source for quality dried bitter orange?
« on: September 24, 2017, 08:11:17 PM »
I'm considering brewing Candi Syrup's recipe for Chimay Doree (Gold).

I'm wondering if anyone can recommend and vouch for a brand and/or supplier of dried bitter orange, that doesn't have a ton of pith.


Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Harvest this yeast cake for reuse or no?
« on: September 24, 2017, 06:44:32 PM »
My understanding of the recommendation to not reuse yeast from beer with fruit in it is more about recipes with some number of pounds of fruit.  I wouldn't worry about it in your case.


Hi Paul, I meant to get back to you after finding the researched online article I had read before posting - yeah I know a lot of online articles are suspect and often downright incorrect.  Anyway, I haven't located that article but it definitely had indicated the preference for not re-pitching yeast in any batch that used "fruit, peel, and/or spices".  It was wrong. 

BTW, my kettle soured plum saison which is the re-pitch batch is progressing very well and continuing to drop SG during the fruit added stage (plum puree) and the hydro sample yesterday the 3rd day on fruit, and continued actively fermenting at 1.010, tasted really good.  This should be a good beer.  Of course, as the yeast cake this time is mixed with fruit puree I will toss it after I cold crash and rack to kegs.

Adding the puree at 80F after primary ferment of the kettle soured straight wort was mostly done sure kicked up instant massive blow off so I added a few drops of anti-foam drops to knock it back some.


General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Pics of recent brews?
« on: September 24, 2017, 06:06:01 PM »
Wow, bea-ut-iful!!

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 21, 2017, 02:31:17 AM »
I thought I'd cap this little wandering mini-drama.  As with many things, finesse makes the difference between "works" vs. "I think it's broke".

So, since yesterday when I opened the ziplock on each still-partially-frozen bag about 2 inches to allow any of the retained so2 to diffuse out as they fully thawed and came to room temp, it took a lot longer for them to warm up than I expected.

Had I re-zipped the bags after 10 hrs exposure and let them fully warm up I'd have been ok.  Instead I let them go closer to 20 hrs since they were still cold - not ready to pitch.  When I last looked at them, the bits of pureed fruit near the opening had discolored/darkened from air ingress which made me wonder if they weren't also a bit microbially impacted.

My fix, as I have done in the past with homemade puree, was to pour all the bags (total 3 gallons) into a clean SS canning pot, heat the puree at just over medium heat to 150F, while stirring constantly so as not to set pectins at the bottom of the pot, and then held the puree at 150 - 151F for 15 minutes, again while stirring.
 Then I chilled down the pot of puree while stirring to the beer ferment temp (80F) in an ice water bath in the sink, and pitch it via a sanitized 1-pint measuring cup.

All is well at least.

Equipment and Software / Re: Genesis Fermenter
« on: September 20, 2017, 07:05:20 PM »
Is it plastic?

Equipment and Software / Re: Genesis Fermenter
« on: September 20, 2017, 03:53:29 AM »
I'd rather spend a little time cleaning and sanitizing my buckets than create more garbage into the world.  We're such a throw away society - IMHO it's awful.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 20, 2017, 03:11:25 AM »
I ended up nice and tightly fitting the 6 thawing bags into a clean and sanitized sausage tub, of course faced with the zip lock up, and partly opened each bag tucked away in the basement where there's no cross breezes from heater vents, etc..  Come morning the puree will be room temp and unspilled and ready to go into the two awaiting fermenters, and I have basically no worry that they will have collected any significant off-flavor causing microbes.

One can think things through, but one shouldn't overthink things.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 11:56:20 PM »
Hmm, that's thought provoking.  Especially given that when fermenting on fruit it's recommended to keep the fermenter lid snapped down to prevent staling by 02 - of course with airlock or blowoff tube in place.  Meaning less ability for any gasses to easily off gas.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 11:14:19 PM »
Huh!  A very knowledgeable winery owner / wine maker on my winemaking forum just shared that Saccharomyces yeast isn't inhibited by so2 until at least 200 ppm.  That is very interesting.

Ingredients / Re: Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:09:34 PM »
No need to let the fruit breathe while thawing.  An active fermentatation removes the SO2.

Cool!  I had pondered it from that angle, namely that active yeast in large numbers (active ferment) is enough to compensate for yeast shock, that would otherwise occur if the scenario was pitching at standard pitch rate at the beginning of fermentation in the presence of sulfited puree.

Thank you!  This means less exposure and fuss.  Once the puree is thawed and at room temp I'll just spritz the ziplock bags with star san, open them and dump in the fruit puree.

Ingredients / Does freezing sulfited fruit puree dissipate so2?
« on: September 19, 2017, 04:12:54 PM »
I realize that when using sulfite that the recommended process is to sulfite fruit or puree, say to 50 ppm, let sit overnight (12 - 24 hrs) to dissipate the so2 and then add the fruit to primary or rack on top of it in secondary fermenter.

In this instance I pureed ripe plums (minus pits) when available and added sulfite to 50 ppm (.33 g pot meta per gallon of puree) to protect color, reduce wild yeast, and prevent browning, and then put it in gallon zip locks and immediately froze it for later use.

I'm wondering if upon thawing the puree if I need to open the bag tops and let the puree "breathe" for let's say 12 hrs, before fermenting, or if having frozen it for a few days that the so2 will already have dissipated.

The fruit puree will be added to actively fermenting saison in primary fermenters, so sacchromyces yeast tolerance of so2 is at the center of the question, and whether it dissipates during freezing so becomes a non-issue.

My hunch and general inclination is that I could thaw the full bags, open their zip tops for a few hours to let the puree breathe, and then add the puree to primary, but I wonder if the sulfite already dissipated during the few days in the freezer.

Thanks for any insight here.

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