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61
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: local flabby and banana ridden saisons
« Last post by pete b on Today at 09:06:38 AM »
I think with large amount of breweries open, and opening soon, we will reach a point where the public will weed out the poor quality breweries.
I don't know about that. Way too much local fanboy-ism.

Yup. Because it's "local" and they have a slick taproom space, the beer is automatically awesome.
I think that this may be true when its the only game in town but in areas where local is competing with other local the bad will get weeded out. Also, some get better.
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.... I've probably brewed more saisons than any other style at this point and feel like I make a decent one: no banana and bone dry with a good range of spicy phenolics. I consistently get 565 down to 1.002 on its own these days.


@dillah98

So, I'm interested in your saison technique because I've been struggling with making a good saison. My recent attempts have been banana and pear disappointments despite (or maybe because of) following accepted wisdom with 565 fermentation temperature profiles, i.e ramping up towards the end of fermentation. I have followed an all - pilsner malt dupont style recipe. I am relatively experienced homebrewer with some good results in other styles but struggle to nail the classic saison.

The off flavours (excessive fruitiness) I get indicate yeast stress to me so I wonder whether temperature ramping causes this - it's not excessive - max 22C. My attenuation is good and I've never had a stall with 565.

I oxygenate wort prior to pitching and make SNS starters with a fresh tube of 565. Interested to hear your techniques and critique of mine.

cheers
steve
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Ingredients / Re: Loral Hops
« Last post by Rhoobarb on Today at 09:03:41 AM »
64
Ingredients / Re: Too much caramel malt
« Last post by denny on Today at 09:00:21 AM »
Or more bittering and sulfate.
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Events / Re: Beer Drinker Of The Year Finals - 10/5 - Wynkoop
« Last post by denny on Today at 08:59:26 AM »
Damn..don't get in til Fri.
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Beer Travel / Re: Denver
« Last post by hopfenundmalz on Today at 08:57:58 AM »
Station 26 is not close to where you will be, but was started by a guy who used to be on the forum. A friend who recently moved to the Denver area says they make really good beer.
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Beer Travel / Re: Denver
« Last post by a10t2 on Today at 08:53:50 AM »
I was at Freshcraft last week and didn't think it was anything to write home about. The beer selection is pretty typical for CO beer bars and the food is mostly just bar food. Look up Pint's Pub, they do some really good British pub food and brew on site, including a couple beer engines. They also have 300 single-malt whiskies if you're into that sort of thing. LowDown would be a short walk from there and has a more modern American menu. If you're up for a short hop on the light rail, Declaration brewing is right across from Evans Station in an awesome outdoor patio space. I think they usually have a food truck and there's all kinds of stuff on that stretch of Broadway that you could carry in.
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All Grain Brewing / Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Last post by hopfenundmalz on Today at 08:51:40 AM »
Yeast strain can have an influence. Lagers end up higher, ales lower.
http://byo.com/malt/item/1494-the-principles-of-ph

Certain pathogens do not survive under 4.6 pH. This is why pickled foods are safe. Brett survives at lower pH, as does lactic and acetic organisms.

Edit - one can drop pH in the finished beer with the acid of your choice (phosphoric is most flavor neutral), or raise the pH with a base (pickling lime is my choice). Try it.
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I think with large amount of breweries open, and opening soon, we will reach a point where the public will weed out the poor quality breweries.
I don't know about that. Way too much local fanboy-ism.

Yup. Because it's "local" and they have a slick taproom space, the beer is automatically awesome.
70
All Grain Brewing / Re: true effect of pH on finished beer
« Last post by zwiller on Today at 08:37:52 AM »
Final pH is driven by the yeast but the brewer has to set it up to get there.  If you do any research, it is rare for the yeast to drop the pH when mashed/sparged out of range.  There is an expected pH drop and if you start high, you end high.  There is no autocorrect.  IE - Chico is a low acid producer.  SN is well known to acidify all brewing water to 5.5 and mash at 5.1... 


A lot of that is for reducing alkalinity in the water (buffering), which prevents pH from dropping and results in a high mash pH.  So yes, kettle pH is important.  But it's a logarithmic scale so the amount of hydrogen ions that cause a pH drop from 5.5 to 5.2 would do something like drop pH 4.5 to 4.47 (total swag but you get the idea).

Whether there is significant buffering capability removed below a certain wort pH, I'm not sure.  Would be interesting to see some experiments.
On another forum there is semi active thread comparing the pH drop of KO to final.  The final drop is not log based or minor like you describe.  Perhaps this can be explained but that is beyond me.  It's just something I've picked up from experience. 
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