Author Topic: oxygenation  (Read 5010 times)

Offline punatic

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 06:17:12 PM »
I've had really good results with the stainless wand and stone I got from Williams Brewing and the red disposable oxygen cannisters from Home Depot.

It sounds like mix-stirs do the job as well, but there's a lot of pet hair floating around my house.


Ambient air is only 21% oxygen (78% nitrogen).  Bottled oxygen and an airstone are way more efficient.

The missing 1% is....  pet hair?   :D
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Offline robertpreed

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2011, 04:18:38 PM »
With the CO2 canisters, how long do you all let it run?

Thanks

Online morticaixavier

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 08:42:32 AM »
With the CO2 canisters, how long do you all let it run?

Thanks

I imagine it's just a typo but you want o2 not co2. well you want co2 as well but that's later ;D
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Offline robertpreed

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2011, 11:14:00 AM »
With the CO2 canisters, how long do you all let it run?

Thanks

I imagine it's just a typo but you want o2 not co2. well you want co2 as well but that's later ;D

Yeah, I mean how long to run th O2 can........ :-[

Offline dbarber

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2011, 12:33:58 PM »
I ususally run it for about a minute for a modest gravity ale and 2 minutes for a lager or a high gravity ale.
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Offline robertpreed

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2011, 01:37:28 PM »
I ususally run it for about a minute for a modest gravity ale and 2 minutes for a lager or a high gravity ale.

Thanks

Offline a10t2

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2011, 02:28:13 PM »
Ambient air is only 21% oxygen (78% nitrogen).  Bottled oxygen and an airstone are way more efficient.

True, but how much efficiency does a home brewer really need? Pumping oxygen instead of air saves 10 min, but it also costs more.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2011, 03:00:00 PM »
Ambient air is only 21% oxygen (78% nitrogen).  Bottled oxygen and an airstone are way more efficient.

True, but how much efficiency does a home brewer really need? Pumping oxygen instead of air saves 10 min, but it also costs more.

It's also about how much oxygen you can dissolve.  Wyeast did a study that showed whether you shake and splash for 40 secs, or aquarium pump and air stone for 5 min you can only get about 8ppm dissolved O2.  1 min of pure O2 through a sintered stone can deliver up to 26ppm O2.  This may not be important for 1.040 session beers, but if you're trying another 1.120 monster, it can surely have an impact on yeast health.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

Offline hokerer

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2011, 04:53:24 PM »
It's also about how much oxygen you can dissolve.  Wyeast did a study that showed whether you shake and splash for 40 secs, or aquarium pump and air stone for 5 min you can only get about 8ppm dissolved O2.  1 min of pure O2 through a sintered stone can deliver up to 26ppm O2.  This may not be important for 1.040 session beers, but if you're trying another 1.120 monster, it can surely have an impact on yeast health.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

Don't forget that there is also such a thing as too much oxygen.  You can't reach "too much" with air but you can with oxygen
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Offline rbclay

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2011, 08:39:30 PM »
Quote
The plastic blades don't stand up to the hot wort, they'll soften and wrap right around the shaft. Ask me how I know...
 I did make some replacement blades from stainless steel but never used them. I built a hop strainer that's so effective that I don't need to whirlpool.

Pretty sure you aren't supposed to aerate/oxygenate hot wort. I'm surprised no one else caught this comment earlier?!? Aerating/oxygenating is for cooled wort. Isn't that where the (bad) term hot-side aeration comes from?

I've used the red O2 tanks for years. Recently acquired a cheap decommisioned small medical O2 tank. Holds way more than those disposible red ones. Yes, oxygenating costs more. But I figure the yeast want oxygen not just air. Not that good results can't be had with aerating.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2011, 09:29:16 PM »
Don't forget that there is also such a thing as too much oxygen.  You can't reach "too much" with air but you can with oxygen
You really can't with O2 if you are following normal procedures.  If you continuously oxygenate it's bad, but no one does that.  The solubility limit of O2 in wort is fine for yeast if you are pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast.  The solubility of O2 in wort is less than in water.



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Online morticaixavier

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2011, 01:25:07 AM »
Quote
The plastic blades don't stand up to the hot wort, they'll soften and wrap right around the shaft. Ask me how I know...
 I did make some replacement blades from stainless steel but never used them. I built a hop strainer that's so effective that I don't need to whirlpool.

Pretty sure you aren't supposed to aerate/oxygenate hot wort. I'm surprised no one else caught this comment earlier?!? Aerating/oxygenating is for cooled wort. Isn't that where the (bad) term hot-side aeration comes from?

I've used the red O2 tanks for years. Recently acquired a cheap decommisioned small medical O2 tank. Holds way more than those disposible red ones. Yes, oxygenating costs more. But I figure the yeast want oxygen not just air. Not that good results can't be had with aerating.

I think the idea is to stir the wort for a whirlpool effect and to speed cooling. I have poured hot wort from one bucket to another on several occasions and never noticed and apparent HSA effects. Not denying that it is real just saying that I have not had a problem with it even what doing things that one would think should cause it!
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Offline hokerer

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2011, 11:35:59 AM »
You really can't with O2 if you are following normal procedures.  If you continuously oxygenate it's bad, but no one does that.  The solubility limit of O2 in wort is fine for yeast if you are pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast.  The solubility of O2 in wort is less than in water.

Can that be reconciled with the statement in the recent Zymurgy "Brew Lager like a German" article...

"It is easy to over-oxygenate the wort in a small vessel with pure O2, so tread carefully.  Levels of oxygen over 12 mg/l can have a toxic effect on the yeast and result in stopped fermentation"

...haven't people been talking about pure O2 being able to get as high as 26 or so?  regular air only being able to reach 8 ?
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2011, 11:38:32 AM »
You really can't with O2 if you are following normal procedures.  If you continuously oxygenate it's bad, but no one does that.  The solubility limit of O2 in wort is fine for yeast if you are pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast.  The solubility of O2 in wort is less than in water.

Can that be reconciled with the statement in the recent Zymurgy "Brew Lager like a German" article...

"It is easy to over-oxygenate the wort in a small vessel with pure O2, so tread carefully.  Levels of oxygen over 12 mg/l can have a toxic effect on the yeast and result in stopped fermentation"

...haven't people been talking about pure O2 being able to get as high as 26 or so?  regular air only being able to reach 8 ?
That's going to strongly depend on pitching rate among other things, but let's just say I'd like to see the primary research for that statement.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline hokerer

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Re: oxygenation
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2011, 12:31:46 PM »
That's going to strongly depend on pitching rate among other things, but let's just say I'd like to see the primary research for that statement.

Yeah, I don't really know much about it.  I've just seen that "you can overdo it with pure O2" statement in lots of different places, hence my original post.  It was just a coincidence that I finally got around to that Zymurgy article yesterday morning and dang if I don't see that very statement again :)
Joe