Author Topic: Begian Dark vs Quad  (Read 5373 times)

Offline DW

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Begian Dark vs Quad
« on: December 03, 2011, 07:50:06 AM »
Is there a difference between a Belgian Quad (like Rochefort 10, St. Bernadeus Abt 10) and Belgian Dark Strong Ale (like Chimay Grande Reserve, Thelonius)????They seem quite similar.  Just Curious

Offline corkybstewart

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 08:38:22 AM »
I don't think so.  The "quad" designation is probably an American invention that is supposed to follow the Belgian designations of dubbel and tripel. This is just my theory, somebody else may have an absolute answer.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 09:29:22 AM »
A BDS and a Quad are essentially one in the same. Inspired by the Trappist brewers of Belgium, a Quadrupel or BDS has high ABV with bolder flavors compared to its Dubbel and Tripel sister styles.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 09:32:36 AM by bluesman »
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 11:15:01 AM »
Check out the classic examples of BDS:
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style18.php#1e
Tom Schmidlin

Offline jjflash

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 10:54:12 AM »
FYI
Belgian Dark Strong is category18e BJCP.
Trappist Quadrupel's belong in category 16e BJCP

I was sighted by a pro brewer judge this year for entering my Trappist style Quadrupel in 16c, where it correctly belongs, instead of 18e.

Belgian Dark Strong: Chimay blue, Rochefort 8
Belgian Quadrupel's: St Bernardus 12, Rochefort 10

BJCP style guidelines for 16e
" This category may be used as an “incubator” for recognized styles for which there is not yet a formal BJCP category. Some styles falling into this classification include:
Blond Trappist table beer
Artisanal Blond
Artisanal Amber
Artisanal Brown
Belgian-style Barleywines
Trappist Quadrupels
Belgian Spiced Christmas Beers
Belgian Stout
Belgian IPA
Strong and/or Dark Saison
Fruit-based Flanders Red/Brown"
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Offline narvin

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 11:19:27 AM »
FYI
Belgian Dark Strong is category18e BJCP.
Trappist Quadrupel's belong in category 16e BJCP

I was sighted by a pro brewer judge this year for entering my Trappist style Quadrupel in 16c, where it correctly belongs, instead of 18e.

Belgian Dark Strong: Chimay blue, Rochefort 8
Belgian Quadrupel's: St Bernardus 12, Rochefort 10

BJCP style guidelines for 16e
" This category may be used as an “incubator” for recognized styles for which there is not yet a formal BJCP category. Some styles falling into this classification include:
Blond Trappist table beer
Artisanal Blond
Artisanal Amber
Artisanal Brown
Belgian-style Barleywines
Trappist Quadrupels
Belgian Spiced Christmas Beers
Belgian Stout
Belgian IPA
Strong and/or Dark Saison
Fruit-based Flanders Red/Brown"

So, what is the difference then?  You may have to enter your dark strong in the 16e specialty category if it falls outside of the OG/FG guidelines, but that's an American distinction and something they'd probably laugh at in Belgium.
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Offline DW

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2011, 12:15:03 PM »
You guys are brilliant!  I'm also glad to know that I'm not completely silly for asking simple questions.  I'm about to host a blind tasting.  I thought that Belgian quad and belgian dark strong ale were the same beer, so I was going to provide an assortment from both.  i recently brewed a dark belgian strong, and I was going to include it.  What do you guys think?  Stick with just DBS, or throw in some quads?  And having said that, what 6 or so beers would you add to the sampling? 

Offline narvin

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2011, 12:35:03 PM »
FYI
Belgian Dark Strong is category18e BJCP.
Trappist Quadrupel's belong in category 16e BJCP

I was sighted by a pro brewer judge this year for entering my Trappist style Quadrupel in 16c, where it correctly belongs, instead of 18e.

Belgian Dark Strong: Chimay blue, Rochefort 8
Belgian Quadrupel's: St Bernardus 12, Rochefort 10


Also, the BJCP style guidelines disagree with you.

Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Commercial Examples: Westvleteren 12 (yellow cap), Rochefort 10 (blue cap), St. Bernardus Abt 12, Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor, Achel Extra Brune, Rochefort 8 (green cap), Southampton Abbot 12, Chimay Grande Reserve (Blue), Brasserie des Rocs Grand Cru, Gulden Draak, Kasteelbier Bière du Chateau Donker, Lost Abbey Judgment Day, Russian River Salvation
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Chris S.

Offline jjflash

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2011, 01:35:14 PM »
Also, the BJCP style guidelines disagree with you.

Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Commercial Examples: Westvleteren 12 (yellow cap), Rochefort 10 (blue cap), St. Bernardus Abt 12, Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor, Achel Extra Brune, Rochefort 8 (green cap), Southampton Abbot 12, Chimay Grande Reserve (Blue), Brasserie des Rocs Grand Cru, Gulden Draak, Kasteelbier Bière du Chateau Donker, Lost Abbey Judgment Day, Russian River Salvation

By gosh you are correct - my mistake.
Odd that the only commercial example of a Trappist Quad in BJCP style guidelines that I can find in La Trappe Quadruple.

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Offline beer_crafter

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 04:51:59 PM »
I think they are one and the same.

Those that don't usually indicate that a Quad is sweeter and not as attenuated, I think.  And BJCP experts want to chime in?

Offline skyler

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2011, 09:55:08 AM »
I didn't notice any beers called "quadrupel" in Belgium when I was there, so I think it is (mostly) an American distinction. Koeningshoven/La Trappe has one, but they aren't Belgian - they are Dutch.

Offline markaberrant

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 03:18:01 PM »
This has bothered me for years, and it came up again in discussion ealier today with some other folks.  I would really like to hear Gordon Strong or Kristen England answer this question.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 07:48:01 AM »
I sense that Belgian beers are like jazz. Most people who appreciate good beer know it's good. We get blonde vs dark, low abv vs high. Then there's other nuances,  and knowledge to be gained. Then there is the swirling vortex of deep philosophical debate over terminology, which usually is reserved seating only by invitation.

I'm in the "me like Belgian styles"  mob, as indicated by my love of Elysian Bete Blanche triple and Sierra Nevada Ovila quad. Both probably not true triple, quad, or Belgian.

I love this about beer. You can enjoy the miles davis of beers and not compromise your  flatts and Scruggs roots.

Oh and I vote yes that Quad is just a word for big dark Belgian.

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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 08:51:12 AM »
I've never really understood the difference either.

Are quads sweeter?  Gulden Draak is pretty sweet. 
Are their attenuation %'s lower?  I think Southampton Abbot 12 and Gouden Carolas Grand Cru of the Emperor are lower than La Trappe Quad, which is only slightly lower then St B Abt 12, which is quite a bit lower than say Rochefort 10.

Fruitier?  Rochefort beers are quite fruity.  La Trappe comes across as different fruit, as do the Unibroue beers listed in 16E.

Lower carb or fuller body?  Don't have enough spare liver cells to open all these simultaneously to compare.  Perhaps a side project for NHC attendees to taste a bunch of BSDA/quad together?   ;)

I dunno...I'd like to see them all together honestly. 
I don't think I'd enter a strong dark belgian in 16E unless I had created a good clone of a well-known beer already listed there, or had created a Christmas-y/heavily spiced BDSA.  Just my two cents.

cheers--
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Offline denny

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Re: Begian Dark vs Quad
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 09:26:30 AM »
My way of thinking of it that a quad is a BDSA, but a BDSA is not necessarily a quad.
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