Author Topic: I am new to lager  (Read 6380 times)

Offline davidgzach

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2011, 01:25:21 PM »
Thanks Kit!  If you tasted my first few lagers, you would have done the research too!   :D
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Offline hairyhood

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2011, 02:15:21 PM »
Thank you all.  I got a lot of good advice here.

Offline denny

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2011, 03:06:05 PM »
Strong:  Brewing Better Beer, Troubleshooting.  Sulphury:  ".........Reduce it's formation during fermentation by increasing yeast nutrients in wort, increasing lipids, increasing aeration, having healthy, active yeast, and removing hot and cold break and trub."

Goldammer:  The Brewer's Handbook, Chapter 12-Wort Cooling and Aeration, Removal of Cold Break.
"After the wort is cooled, the cold break must be removed before fermentation, or else the beer will taste wort-like, bitter, and even harsh. Opinions vary as to whether cold break should be removed at all before transferring the wort to the fermenter.
Traditional lager brewers advocate the removal of cold break prior to fermentation, and some even filter cold worts prior to pitching (14). Lager brewers believe cold break removal aids in colloidal stability in the beer, circumvents the formation of sulfury flavors, and removes harsh bitter fractions derived from hops."

When I started lagering, my first 2-3 really sucked, so I did a LOT of research as to why.  Now, they are pretty darn good!   ;D

I never remove cold break and I've never suffered any of those problems.  For that matter, I don't know of a commerc ial brewery that removes the break. 
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2011, 03:08:02 PM »
Strong:  Brewing Better Beer, Troubleshooting.  Sulphury:  ".........Reduce it's formation during fermentation by increasing yeast nutrients in wort, increasing lipids, increasing aeration, having healthy, active yeast, and removing hot and cold break and trub."

Goldammer:  The Brewer's Handbook, Chapter 12-Wort Cooling and Aeration, Removal of Cold Break.
"After the wort is cooled, the cold break must be removed before fermentation, or else the beer will taste wort-like, bitter, and even harsh. Opinions vary as to whether cold break should be removed at all before transferring the wort to the fermenter.
Traditional lager brewers advocate the removal of cold break prior to fermentation, and some even filter cold worts prior to pitching (14). Lager brewers believe cold break removal aids in colloidal stability in the beer, circumvents the formation of sulfury flavors, and removes harsh bitter fractions derived from hops."

When I started lagering, my first 2-3 really sucked, so I did a LOT of research as to why.  Now, they are pretty darn good!   ;D

I never remove cold break and I've never suffered any of those problems.  For that matter, I don't know of a commerc ial brewery that removes the break. 

Just following what I have read dude......
Dave Zach

Offline denny

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2011, 03:10:00 PM »
Just following what I have read dude......

Oh, I completely understand and if it works for you, it's the right thing to do.  If I was having any of the problems mentioned in your post, I might try it, too.  But I'm too pragmatic to expend effort unless I know it will have a payoff. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline davidgzach

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2011, 03:15:20 PM »
Just following what I have read dude......

Oh, I completely understand and if it works for you, it's the right thing to do.  If I was having any of the problems mentioned in your post, I might try it, too.  But I'm too pragmatic to expend effort unless I know it will have a payoff. 

I hear ya.  My first lagers were so bad I over-compensated and did everthing possible...... 

Maybe I could scale it back a bit now.
Dave Zach

Offline jaggers

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2011, 03:17:17 PM »
Strong:  Brewing Better Beer, Troubleshooting.  Sulphury:  ".........Reduce it's formation during fermentation by increasing yeast nutrients in wort, increasing lipids, increasing aeration, having healthy, active yeast, and removing hot and cold break and trub."

Goldammer:  The Brewer's Handbook, Chapter 12-Wort Cooling and Aeration, Removal of Cold Break.
"After the wort is cooled, the cold break must be removed before fermentation, or else the beer will taste wort-like, bitter, and even harsh. Opinions vary as to whether cold break should be removed at all before transferring the wort to the fermenter.
Traditional lager brewers advocate the removal of cold break prior to fermentation, and some even filter cold worts prior to pitching (14). Lager brewers believe cold break removal aids in colloidal stability in the beer, circumvents the formation of sulfury flavors, and removes harsh bitter fractions derived from hops."

When I started lagering, my first 2-3 really sucked, so I did a LOT of research as to why.  Now, they are pretty darn good!   ;D

I never remove cold break and I've never suffered any of those problems.  For that matter, I don't know of a commerc ial brewery that removes the break. 

Gordon Biersch does.

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2011, 03:28:02 PM »
Gordon Biersch does.

At all their locations, or is it at the brewer's discretion? Do you know what kind of equipment they have that allows them to do it? Filter after the heat exchanger, or maybe just a settling tank?
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Online jeffy

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2011, 03:28:35 PM »
I don't have any problems with sulfur odors as long as I let the yeast finish up its work.  I switched from all the cold break going into the fermenters to very little of the cold break making it to the fermenters a year or so ago and I can't tell whether the beers are any better after than before.  No difference in sulfur that I can detect.  
I'm not winning as many contests as I used to though.  Perhaps I should revert back to retaining some cold break......
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Offline denny

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2011, 04:39:13 PM »
I've posted it here several times before, but a brewer in Europe posted the results of a test he did on the Brews and Views forum.  he left all the trub in one lager and removed it from the other.  Bottom line was that the beer with the trub was clearer and better tasting.  Only a single data point, but an interesting one.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline davidgzach

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2011, 05:17:27 PM »
I've posted it here several times before, but a brewer in Europe posted the results of a test he did on the Brews and Views forum.  he left all the trub in one lager and removed it from the other.  Bottom line was that the beer with the trub was clearer and better tasting.  Only a single data point, but an interesting one.

I remember reading in my research, I'll try to find it, that it becomes more of an issue the longer you leave the beer in primary.  I do not think it matters in the short-term, but becomes a problem in the long-term.  That is why I posted above not to keep the beer in primary for an extended period of time if there was a lot of cold break.  I don't know how long you guys leave a lager on the cake, but I keg after 3 weeks (so long as I had a good fermentation and reach FG) and lager in the keg.  I try to lager 6-8 weeks minimum but usually break down earlier.... :)
Dave Zach

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2011, 01:10:32 AM »
I remember reading in my research, I'll try to find it, that it becomes more of an issue the longer you leave the beer in primary.  I do not think it matters in the short-term, but becomes a problem in the long-term.  That is why I posted above not to keep the beer in primary for an extended period of time if there was a lot of cold break.  I don't know how long you guys leave a lager on the cake, but I keg after 3 weeks (so long as I had a good fermentation and reach FG) and lager in the keg.  I try to lager 6-8 weeks minimum but usually break down earlier.... :)
I lost a primary carboy in a closet for a year, it was cool but not cold.  That beer won BOS.  I don't recommend doing the same, but it's not a black/white issue.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline davidgzach

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2011, 06:36:12 AM »
I remember reading in my research, I'll try to find it, that it becomes more of an issue the longer you leave the beer in primary.  I do not think it matters in the short-term, but becomes a problem in the long-term.  That is why I posted above not to keep the beer in primary for an extended period of time if there was a lot of cold break.  I don't know how long you guys leave a lager on the cake, but I keg after 3 weeks (so long as I had a good fermentation and reach FG) and lager in the keg.  I try to lager 6-8 weeks minimum but usually break down earlier.... :)
I lost a primary carboy in a closet for a year, it was cool but not cold.  That beer won BOS.  I don't recommend doing the same, but it's not a black/white issue.

Tom, totally agree.  Never meant to imply it was.  Just trying to help with some of the reading I have done.

How do you lose a carboy for a year?  What style of beer?  Cool story.
Dave Zach

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2011, 10:02:17 AM »
How do you lose a carboy for a year?  What style of beer?  Cool story.
I kind of vaguely knew it was there behind some boxes, but I got busy with other things and didn't get to it.  It happens (to me anyway).  It was a 100% rauch malt dopplebock.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: I am new to lager
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2011, 06:35:48 PM »
I use a kettle screen mainly for hops, but it also filters the cold break a little.  I didn't think about it, but it probably has helped with my lagers - I never get a sulphur issue (other than from the human output side of things).  Also, I bet it depends a lot on the yeast strain used, since some are pretty sulphury...


Good discussion.

Cheers.
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