Author Topic: A new trend...?  (Read 7870 times)

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1765
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2011, 03:47:13 PM »
I'm with Ron on this issue...the container doesn't matter, I drink beer from a glass.  Cans are a much better packaging options on multiple levels.  The local brewery in Indy made a decision at its inception to go with cans as their retail packaging.  They haven't looked back.  Its great beer and that's the only thing that matters. 

I recently tried the canned PU and was amazed at how much better it was than the skunky bottles I was used to getting.  It makes a huge difference in long hauled imports. And my girlfriend likes it in the can too...   oh lord I apologize.
Steve Carper
Green Dragon Brew Crew
Clubs: Oregon Brew Crew & Strange Brew
BJCP Certified

Offline jeffy

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2902
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 03:49:43 PM »
Even if the cans are weak because of the time it takes to can condition, wouldn't they make some sort of strengthener in each level of can pallets that would prevent the cans from being crushed by the weight?  Three pieces of vertical plastic the same height as a can in each level, maybe?
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 03:53:38 PM »
I'm with Ron on this issue...the container doesn't matter, I drink beer from a glass.  Cans are a much better packaging options on multiple levels.  The local brewery in Indy made a decision at its inception to go with cans as their retail packaging.  They haven't looked back.  Its great beer and that's the only thing that matters. 

I recently tried the canned PU and was amazed at how much better it was than the skunky bottles I was used to getting.  It makes a huge difference in long hauled imports. And my girlfriend likes it in the can too...   oh lord I apologize.

 :D
Ron Price

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 03:59:47 PM »
I was going to mention the skunking of hops by light exposure in the bottle...this is another element to consider. The other concern for some is taste difference.  :-\

I do know that cans are lined with a water-epoxy ensuring that aluminum and beer never touch each other.

http://www.professorshouse.com/Food-Beverage/Beer/Articles/Canned-vs-Bottled-Beer/

http://www.triplepundit.com/2011/05/great-canned-bottled-beer-debate-20-craft-brewing-weighs/
Ron Price

Offline punatic

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4583
  • Puna District, Hawaii Island (UTC -10)
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 04:07:42 PM »
The issue is that since the beer is at least partially carbed in the container, cans wouldn't have their full strength when they were stacked pallet upon pallet.

Since the cans are full of (essentially) water, and water is virtually incompressible, I'm surprised that this would be a problem.
The water doesn't compress, but the headspace does.  But more importantly, the pressure can still increase without the water compressing, and the pressure bursts the cans.

So, how does that relate to the filled cans being under-carbed intially?  

(not meaning to be argumentative, just curious)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 04:10:53 PM by punatic »
There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way.


AHA Life Member #33907

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8197
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 04:11:42 PM »
The issue is that since the beer is at least partially carbed in the container, cans wouldn't have their full strength when they were stacked pallet upon pallet.

Since the cans are full of (essentially) water, and water is virtually incompressible, I'm surprised that this would be a problem.
The water doesn't compress, but the headspace does.  But more importantly, the pressure can still increase without the water compressing, and the pressure bursts the cans.

So, how does that relate to the filled cans being under-carbed intially?  

(not meaning to be argumentative, just curious)
It doesn't, but the headspace compressing and denting the can relates. :)

Or even if it's not forming a permanent dent, you'd want whatever you are stacking that much weight on to be flat and stable.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline punatic

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4583
  • Puna District, Hawaii Island (UTC -10)
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 04:17:27 PM »
Also, fermenting in the can?  It's been quite a few years since there has been yeast sediment on the bottom of my SN beers.  They are still bottle-conditioned?  (can-conditioned?)
There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way.


AHA Life Member #33907

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8197
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2011, 04:49:45 PM »
Also, fermenting in the can?  It's been quite a few years since there has been yeast sediment on the bottom of my SN beers.  They are still bottle-conditioned?  (can-conditioned?)
I guess it's possible.  I've noticed that a lot of craft brewed beer cans are softer than the macro lagers, probably due to the higher carbonation in the lagers.  Maybe that makes a difference.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline eltharyon

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
    • Barefoot Lion Brewing
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 06:24:31 PM »
I'm all for SN on the can, Pale ale on the beach and much easier cleanup.

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2011, 06:34:27 PM »
Ron Price

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2011, 07:02:34 PM »

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2011, 07:37:40 PM »
I'm all for SN on the can
!!
+1 Thats dedication.

I just had a pint of canned amber ale from some new little brewery in southern MO, Piney River Brewing.  Pretty tasty stuff and pints are nice.  I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3833
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »
I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line.

The up-front costs are actually more, but the per-can production cost is cheaper than bottles. It breaks even after 5,000-20,000 bbl, depending on the scale and the cans/labels used.
Sent from my Microsoft Bob

Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing | twomilebrewing.com

Offline phillamb168

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2341
  • Lardy, France
    • View Profile
    • My Job
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2011, 02:05:38 AM »
I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line.

The up-front costs are actually more, but the per-can production cost is cheaper than bottles. It breaks even after 5,000-20,000 bbl, depending on the scale and the cans/labels used.

 :o  :-[  :(

5,000 bbl... so with my system I'll break even in... 30 years.
I'm on twitter: phillamb168
----
morticaixavier for governing committee!

Offline brewmonk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
  • Norcia, Italy
    • View Profile
    • Birra Nursia
Re: A new trend...?
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2011, 03:49:22 AM »
I would think for the most part, cans were symbolic of the BMC beers, while bottles represented more of a craft beer feeling of quality.  Breweries like Surly have been breaking through that stigma.  Admittedly, bottles are more elegant IMHO.

Strangely, I've never had that mentality with Guinness draught widget cans.

Here in Italy, the mentality is that small bottles tend to be lower quality beer and 750 ml champagne bottles are higher quality beer.  That's not to say you don't find 33cl Chimay's, Leffes, etc, but for maketing it seems to be the case.  Most of the artisanal beers I see here are in 750ml's and most mass produced beers are smaller sizes like 0.5l and 33cl.

The light factor gives cans an advantage.  But yeah, I can't re-use cans for homebrewing.  Ultimately, I pour mine into a glass too, so as long as it's good beer ...  :)

Although can's aren't nearly as helpful in a bar fight.  :D
Br. Francis
Birra Nursia