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Using water spreadsheets

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dean:
I've been messing around with three different spreadsheets, ezcalc, Palmer's and Kai's.  They are all different and so far I think I like Kai's because it seems to be more straight forward and gives a projected pH of the mash.  Palmer's spreadsheet shows another value that I'm not sure about, it gives an analysis of the outcome (I think?) when it states "malty", "balanced", "bitter", "very bitter".  I'm not sure where this fits in unless its in regards to hop usage?   ???

Kaiser:

--- Quote from: dean on January 21, 2010, 06:23:09 AM --- Palmer's spreadsheet shows another value that I'm not sure about, it gives an analysis of the outcome (I think?) when it states "malty", "balanced", "bitter", "very bitter".  I'm not sure where this fits in unless its in regards to hop usage?   ???

--- End quote ---

I think you are talking about the chloride to sulfate ratio. I haven’t looked much into this subject and John had more data for that. When I design water I just look at the chloride and sulfate numbers. I’ll go for higher sulfate for hoppy beers and lower for malty beers. I have yet to so dome experiments to experience the difference which is why this analysis of the water is missing from my spreadsheet.

Kai

Thirsty_Monk:
I already posted this in another thread but will post it here again:

There is nice video how to use ezWaterCalculator:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/water-modification-videos-ths-spreadsheet-144461/
You can get it from here.
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

I also tried Palmer's spreadsheet but I think that ezWaterCalculator is simpler.
Never tried Kai's spreadsheet.

Kaiser:
Why not talk about what brewers are looking to get from a water spreadsheet.

One challenge, which I hopefully addressed to some extend, is providing a simple interface to a potentially complex problem. That’s why I have the “basic” and “advanced” sheets in mine. They are connected such that if you start entering values into the basic sheet they are carried into the advanced sheet and you can use that if you feel you need more info. It doesn’t work the other way.

Water treatment options can be overwhelming and I don’t want to scare brewers away by having too many options. On the other hand, there are so many water treatment options and I want to be able to provide guidance and calculations for most of them. In addition to the basic addition of salts and acids I have played with dissolving chalk and, just recently, successfully applied lime treatment of brewing water. I’ll be releasing an update that includes that calculation as well.

I’m also not supporting hydrochloric acid for mash pH treatment. It is a very dangerous acid and not for casual use in brewing. If you have access to food grade HCl and not just HW store muriatic acid you are likely knowledgeable enough to do update the spreadsheet to support it. Lactic acid as acidulated malt or 88% solution is a much safer option.

Another design aspect, which I considered, is having a layout that is mobile device friendly. Many of us have handheld devices capable of running spreadshets which we are using on brewday or even for quick recipe deign. Hence the arrangement of the fields in a column on the right.

Here is the link to the current version: http://braukaiser.com/documents/Kaiser_water_calculator.xls

Just in case you don't know it already: check out OpenOffice.org which is a free office suite that also supports Excel spreadsheets.

Kai

dean:
If we plug the numbers into John Palmer's spreadsheet it gives us the descriptions I mentioned in the first post, I guess my question is should we be looking for "balanced"?  I plugged in the numbers for the Burton India Pale Ale as the target water and it gave a description of "very bitter" for Burton's water, which I expect the India Pale Ale is but the spreadsheet asked nothing about the pH of Burton water... so how could it come to that conclusion?  Or is it saying with the pH of my water it would be bitter?  Or are those the mineral amounts in the particular beers mentioned and not the water for each of the named beers?

Oh yeh, I can see where water additions could get complicated.   :D 

I'll probably just try my hand at it and hopefully take good enough notes that I'll be able to duplicate a brew if I like how it turns out. 

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