Author Topic: 1st Saison  (Read 1178 times)

Offline cheba420

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1st Saison
« on: January 05, 2012, 11:25:18 PM »
Hey everyone! I'm getting ready to brew my first saison. Anyone have any recommendations on how long it needs to age? Is it better fresh and green like an IPA or should I go a week for every 10 points of gravity? Thoughts?
Matt
Mesa, AZ.
#197645

On Tap: Vanilla Porter, Belgian Blonde, Saison, Black IPA, Punkin Porter
Primary: Pale 31 Clone, Raspberry Cider
Secondary: Vanilla Porter
Conditioning: Brett IPA
Bottles:Mosaic Wheat
On Deck: Flanders Red, Berliner weisse, Punkin Saison, Saison Brett

Offline euge

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 01:09:25 AM »
It'll just get better and better. I drank several batches over the course of years. I say you can start drinking it anytime but give it a good 3 months in the bottle. It needs to ripen and open up.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline cheba420

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 09:57:22 AM »
Thanks, Euge. Thats a long haul! I'm usually drinking my beer in 3-5 weeks after pitching. This will be an exercise in patience! Living here in Phoenix, it should be ready to go just as it starts getting hot outside. Perfect!
Matt
Mesa, AZ.
#197645

On Tap: Vanilla Porter, Belgian Blonde, Saison, Black IPA, Punkin Porter
Primary: Pale 31 Clone, Raspberry Cider
Secondary: Vanilla Porter
Conditioning: Brett IPA
Bottles:Mosaic Wheat
On Deck: Flanders Red, Berliner weisse, Punkin Saison, Saison Brett

Offline majorvices

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 10:35:42 AM »
I think they are best when fresh, personally. I consider 3 months to be way inside the fresh parameter however. If they are higher gravity saisons you may find they peak over time, but it is going to depend on your personal preference how long. Personally I like all the yeast characters that happen in the beer and I like the way they evolve over a few months but I don't care for them once the yeast character starts fading.

As far as brewing it is best to keep the grist simple. 100% pils malt is not a bad idea, though you can get more creatve than that if you want. One of my favorite saisons I have ever brewed is a red saison - certainly not typical. But for a tried and true saison you need to keep the grain bill very simple. It can be an elegant and complex beer from a very simple grain bill. I also like hops. I like to edge close to the top end of teh style guide lines and some grassy and/or spicy hops in the flavor/aroma.

And start the fermentation off on the cool side. 64 works for me and then I let it ride a few days around 66 and start cranking it up to the low to mid, even high 70s. Experiment around to find your sweet spot.

Saison is a very fun beer to brew.
Keith Y.
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Offline gmac

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 10:50:31 AM »
I've made a few great saisons with Wyeast French Saison yeast and pils malt. For me the character comes from the spices. I used indian coriander (1 TBSP) and about 15 peppercorns in the spice grinder plus 5 grams of fresh ginger finely diced and the zest of 1/2 a grapefruit, all added during the last 10 mins of the boil. Mine got better with age but by 3 months it was gone.

Offline euge

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 11:02:35 AM »
So far I haven't used any spices in mine. And I've fermented it all sorts of ways.

Some brewers say put the fermenter in the warmest part of your house. In Texas that can be pretty warm... Anyway one 14 gallon batch was fermented in the mid-90's. I pitched at about 92 and let it rip. Turned out excellent to my extreme surprise. BTW follow the major's advice on fermentation temps. :)

I like a simple pilsner malt bill with maybe a bit of Vienna and usually do a SMASH when it's a saison.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline cheba420

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 03:18:10 PM »
Great feedback from everyone. Thanks. I just tend to rush my beers once theyre in the keg. I want my first Saison to turn out good to encourage me to brew more of it. I think if I can hold out for three months, I'll hit a home run. I wait that long for my ciders....but cider aint beer! Wish me luck!
Matt
Mesa, AZ.
#197645

On Tap: Vanilla Porter, Belgian Blonde, Saison, Black IPA, Punkin Porter
Primary: Pale 31 Clone, Raspberry Cider
Secondary: Vanilla Porter
Conditioning: Brett IPA
Bottles:Mosaic Wheat
On Deck: Flanders Red, Berliner weisse, Punkin Saison, Saison Brett

Offline euge

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 04:07:15 PM »
I like to bottle mine.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline cfleisher

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 06:13:14 PM »
I say try one a week and judge for yourself. My saisons have always aged out well. If you like spice, then that will fade, of course. But I personally prefer Saisons that have not been spiced.
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Offline pinnah

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 06:37:04 PM »
I made a couple this fall, and am totally stoked to experiment more.

Neither of mine made it very long. 
I had some aspiration for the second saison to age in the keg,
but it was gone in a month.

Still hazy, I rejoiced in the farmhouse style.
I liked it fresh. And justified it to myself by stating out loud...THIS is the traditional farmhouse style. 
Quaffing mid day whilst bucking second crop hay bales. 
Hell yes.  Give me another please. :)

Some day perhaps I might let it age to "perfection"
but man it was good early.

Have fun.

What are you going to hop yours with?
I was loving the lemon of sorachi in mine.  Cheers.


Offline majorvices

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 04:33:50 AM »
I say try one a week and judge for yourself. My saisons have always aged out well. If you like spice, then that will fade, of course. But I personally prefer Saisons that have not been spiced.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you needed to wait three months. As I said, my personal preference is fresh - I just meant I think 3 months is in the "fresh" window. You need to taste it ad just get a fee for when you think it is at its peek.
Keith Y.
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Offline pedalbiker

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 05:45:49 AM »
Hey everyone! I'm getting ready to brew my first saison. Anyone have any recommendations on how long it needs to age? Is it better fresh and green like an IPA or should I go a week for every 10 points of gravity? Thoughts?

To me it is not so much the aging but time of fermentation.  The yeast will almost stop and then start again, that seems to be when the spice flavors from the yeast come out.  I was always one who added spice to a saison. Then I tried no spice just ferment with saison yeast.  Hard to believe the flavor that comes from yeast.  Be patient.
Terry Denham
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Offline majorvices

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 06:15:16 AM »
Hey everyone! I'm getting ready to brew my first saison. Anyone have any recommendations on how long it needs to age? Is it better fresh and green like an IPA or should I go a week for every 10 points of gravity? Thoughts?

To me it is not so much the aging but time of fermentation.  The yeast will almost stop and then start again, that seems to be when the spice flavors from the yeast come out. 

Depends on the yeast. Wlp565 will do that sometimes but the wyeast French saison just chugs along steadily. The WY French strain is way less persnikity than the 566. Much easier to deal with, especially attenuation wise.

Keith Y.
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Offline cheba420

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Re: 1st Saison
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 11:16:27 AM »
I made a couple this fall, and am totally stoked to experiment more.

Neither of mine made it very long. 
I had some aspiration for the second saison to age in the keg,
but it was gone in a month.

Still hazy, I rejoiced in the farmhouse style.
I liked it fresh. And justified it to myself by stating out loud...THIS is the traditional farmhouse style. 
Quaffing mid day whilst bucking second crop hay bales. 
Hell yes.  Give me another please. :)

Some day perhaps I might let it age to "perfection"
but man it was good early.

Have fun.

What are you going to hop yours with?
I was loving the lemon of sorachi in mine.  Cheers.


You know what? I really dont know yet. I wont be brewing it for a couple weeks so I have plenty of time to figure out my recipe. I've read Drew's article about 10 times, I've listened to the Saison show on Brew Strong and have been looking at brewing classic styles to get a handle on this beer. I'll probably go with something citrusy that I like. Amarillo is coming to mind but the Sorachi is a great suggestion as well. For fermentables, Im just going to run with pilsner, some wheat and some table sugar. I'll be shooting for a an OG of around 1070 and will be using the white labs saison yeast. No spice additions. I think all I need to figure out is the hops. I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I've been so impressed with some american commercial saisons lately that I have to start putting this into my regular rotation. I'm pretty stoked about it and cant wait til brew day!
Matt
Mesa, AZ.
#197645

On Tap: Vanilla Porter, Belgian Blonde, Saison, Black IPA, Punkin Porter
Primary: Pale 31 Clone, Raspberry Cider
Secondary: Vanilla Porter
Conditioning: Brett IPA
Bottles:Mosaic Wheat
On Deck: Flanders Red, Berliner weisse, Punkin Saison, Saison Brett