Author Topic: Lessons learned  (Read 1444 times)

Offline morticaixavier

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Lessons learned
« on: January 09, 2012, 07:38:02 AM »
I learned this week that a hefewezen is not a good candidate for partigyle. perhaps it would have been better if I did a multi step or decoction mash but the idea of doing a decoction with 20 lbs of grain just turned me off. It's not bad, just not a hefeweizen.
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Offline denny

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 08:56:35 AM »
Usually when you do a partigyle, the first beer is much higher gravity than a hef.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 10:01:10 AM »
yeah, the hefe was second runnings beer. just didn't have the malty backbone I think of with a hefe. I mashed at ~148 to get maximum fermentability on the big beer so the small beer just came out a little watery. and with the single step I didn't get much clove character. I think I might also have overpitched a bit, around .5 gallon starter and fermented a bit cool ~65-68 so there just isn't much there in terms of esters either.
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Offline denny

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 10:02:40 AM »
Ah, didn't realize the hefe was the second beer.  I have to admit that the words "malty backbone" never cross my mind with a hefe.  I always think of then as kind of light and thin....but I'm no expert on hefe!
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 10:05:31 AM »
It is entirely possible I am either

a) wrong about the style (although I do think of hefe, while light, as having a good amount of maltiness. not chewy but malty/bready maybe)
or
b) using the wrong descriptors (see above parenthetical)

anyway, it's a good quaffable beer and will be better when fully carbed (ran out of co2 while shaking the keg  >:()
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Offline denny

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 10:47:00 AM »
Bready, I can see...
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 10:49:48 AM »
Does it fit into this...

15A. Weizen/Weissbier
Aroma: Moderate to strong phenols (usually clove) and fruity esters (usually banana). The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and fairly prominent. Noble hop character ranges from low to none. A light to moderate wheat aroma (which might be perceived as bready or grainy) may be present but other malt characteristics should not. No diacetyl or DMS. Optional, but acceptable, aromatics can include a light, citrusy tartness, a light to moderate vanilla character, and/or a low bubblegum aroma. None of these optional characteristics should be high or dominant, but often can add to the complexity and balance.

Appearance: Pale straw to very dark gold in color. A very thick, moussy, long-lasting white head is characteristic. The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in an unfiltered beer, although the level of haze is somewhat variable. A beer “mit hefe” is also cloudy from suspended yeast sediment (which should be roused before drinking). The filtered Krystal version has no yeast and is brilliantly clear.

Flavor: Low to moderately strong banana and clove flavor. The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and fairly prominent. Optionally, a very light to moderate vanilla character and/or low bubblegum notes can accentuate the banana flavor, sweetness and roundness; neither should be dominant if present. The soft, somewhat bready or grainy flavor of wheat is complementary, as is a slightly sweet Pils malt character. Hop flavor is very low to none, and hop bitterness is very low to moderately low. A tart, citrusy character from yeast and high carbonation is often present. Well rounded, flavorful palate with a relatively dry finish. No diacetyl or DMS.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body; never heavy. Suspended yeast may increase the perception of body. The texture of wheat imparts the sensation of a fluffy, creamy fullness that may progress to a light, spritzy finish aided by high carbonation. Always effervescent.

Overall Impression: A pale, spicy, fruity, refreshing wheat-based ale.

Comments: These are refreshing, fast-maturing beers that are lightly hopped and show a unique banana-and-clove yeast character. These beers often don’t age well and are best enjoyed while young and fresh. The version “mit hefe” is served with yeast sediment stirred in; the krystal version is filtered for excellent clarity. Bottles with yeast are traditionally swirled or gently rolled prior to serving. The character of a krystal weizen is generally fruitier and less phenolic than that of the hefe-weizen.

Ron Price

Offline tom

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 11:24:27 AM »
That is one of the yeasts that you need to have just the right amount of yeast, oxygen and fermentation temperature (some recommend 62F) to get the banana & clove flavors.

Which yeast did you use?

What was the first runnings beer?
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Offline jmcamerlengo

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 12:29:22 PM »
not only the yeast ferm temp, but to really get that good clove characteristic you need a ferulic acid rest to bring that out as well.

Hefe is probably not the best beer to partigyle in my opinion. But im sure its still a drinkable beer!
Jason
-Head Brewer, Brewtus Brewers in the Shenango Valley. Hopefully opening a brewpub/nano brewery in the next couple years.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 12:39:27 PM »
That is one of the yeasts that you need to have just the right amount of yeast, oxygen and fermentation temperature (some recommend 62F) to get the banana & clove flavors.

Which yeast did you use?

What was the first runnings beer?

was the second runnings beer. used WLP 300 fermented a little warmer than that. pitched at 64f (wort temp) seemed to hover around 65-68 beer temp

not only the yeast ferm temp, but to really get that good clove characteristic you need a ferulic acid rest to bring that out as well.

Hefe is probably not the best beer to partigyle in my opinion. But im sure its still a drinkable beer!

still totally drinkable beer. I think that is the lesson that I learned
Does it fit into this...

15A. Weizen/Weissbier[...]

doesn't hit the clovey, bananay aspects. still not bad, no hop presence at all except for enough bitterness. I don't get any dyacetyl or DMS but i am not the most peceptive taster for those. Gonna bring a growler to the next club meeting.

I'm not to disapointed as this was 'free' beer

not only the yeast ferm temp, but to really get that good clove characteristic you need a ferulic acid rest to bring that out as well.

Hefe is probably not the best beer to partigyle in my opinion. But im sure its still a drinkable beer!

Yeah I figured that would be the case when I skipped the acid rest. but didn't want the clove in the big beer.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 09:40:53 AM »
okay, so after getting more co2 and fully carbing the beer it is better. still kind of a boring hefe, not as boring as an american wheat but still a little boring. Not to worried and I will continue to enjoy drinking.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 07:29:10 AM »
I've been able to get a good amount of clove without the ferulic acid rest.  A little light Munich gives a nice bready flavor.  A small amount of Caramunich also helps bring out the flavor of a hefe, although I don't think thats traditional.

Glad to hear your beer came around, carbing generally does change the flavor profile.
Lennie
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lessons learned
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 08:28:39 AM »
I've been able to get a good amount of clove without the ferulic acid rest.  A little light Munich gives a nice bready flavor.  A small amount of Caramunich also helps bring out the flavor of a hefe, although I don't think thats traditional.

Glad to hear your beer came around, carbing generally does change the flavor profile.

Yeah, now that the keg is getting light it is really coming into it's own. I think I got a little spoiled by brewing quick and easy milds/ordinaries that were totally ready to drink on day 7 or 8. this one, while quick wasn't really at it's best till it had been in the keg for a week or so.

I did use some munich as it happens.

The grain bill was

15 lbs wheat malt
6 lbs munich 10L

There is some yeast character, a little spice a little pungent. It's beer!
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
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"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
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