Author Topic: What happened?  (Read 1650 times)

Offline gymrat

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What happened?
« on: January 16, 2012, 09:07:04 AM »
I mashed the following grain bill.
9 lbs Rahr 2 row
1.5 lbs Rahr malted wheat
Started with 3.5 gallons of strike water. Got 155 so I added half a gallon of cold water to bring it to 150. Let it steep for 90 minutes. Sparged with 4 gallons of 170 degree water. Boiled for 80 minutes.
Brewtarget said I would get 1.050 at 75% effiency. I got an OG of 1.060. Am I grinding my grain too fine? Was there something in my process that would get more extract than predicted? Typically when I use just barley Brewtarget is spot on.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 09:15:00 AM »
Did you hit your volumes? could be a fine crush issue. did you change anything about your process? water chemistry?
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 09:22:33 AM »
Maybe you are just refining your process and getting better efficiency? 
Dave Zach

Offline gymrat

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 10:31:01 AM »
I did make my volume. I had a little over 5 galllons after my 80 minute boil. Only difference between my process on this and my previous red ale was the penthouse of the boil. I gathered less volume and boiled that for 60 minutes.
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Re: What happened?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 10:40:58 AM »
I did make my volume. I had a little over 5 galllons after my 80 minute boil. Only difference between my process on this and my previous red ale was the penthouse of the boil. I gathered less volume and boiled that for 60 minutes.

Ahh well there you go. if you gathered more volume pre boil you got more of the available sugars out of the mash. your overall efficiency might have been higher but your extract probably wasn't much higher. you just got more of the sugars. That's my guess anyway
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Offline bluesman

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 10:55:37 AM »
I brewed a Helles yesterday using 10lbs total grist and ended up with 5.5gal at 1.054. I am not surprised that you started at 1.060 using 10.5lbs of grain. Your efficiency was pretty good.

Some things that could have increased your efficiency are your crush, conversion time and temp, grist, mash pH, etc... Are you sure that your weights were accurate?
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Offline repo

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 11:28:00 AM »
 but your extract probably wasn't much higher. you just got more of the sugars. That's my guess anyway
[/quote]

Isn't that a contradiction???


I brewed a Helles yesterday using 10lbs total grist and ended up with 5.5gal at 1.054. I am not surprised that you started at 1.060 using 10.5lbs of grain. Your efficiency was pretty good.

Some things that could have increased your efficiency are your crush, conversion time and temp, grist, mash pH, etc... Are you sure that your weights were accurate?

+1

You need to measure your preboil volume and gravity to assess your efficiency. Whether you collect 9 gallons or eight and boil it down to 5.5 it will still have the same OG, there is only so much sugar to extract, and the runnings will have  less and less to extract the more you take. Efficiency is how you extract more sugar from a mash and it is tied to the mash and sparge volumes With no stuck mashes I don't think too fine a grind could be called a "problem".  A lot more information is needed to find your answer.

Offline euge

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 11:40:00 AM »
You'll need to repeat it exactly to know for sure. :) It's not uncommon to get efficiencies in the 80's. If it is a departure from your regular numbers then I'd say all things remaining the same you measured wrongly at some point.

I just blame it on the gremlins. Sometimes they give, sometimes they take. :-\
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Re: What happened?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 11:49:17 AM »
but your extract probably wasn't much higher. you just got more of the sugars. That's my guess anyway

Isn't that a contradiction???


I brewed a Helles yesterday using 10lbs total grist and ended up with 5.5gal at 1.054. I am not surprised that you started at 1.060 using 10.5lbs of grain. Your efficiency was pretty good.

Some things that could have increased your efficiency are your crush, conversion time and temp, grist, mash pH, etc... Are you sure that your weights were accurate?

+1

You need to measure your preboil volume and gravity to assess your efficiency. Whether you collect 9 gallons or eight and boil it down to 5.5 it will still have the same OG, there is only so much sugar to extract, and the runnings will have  less and less to extract the more you take. Efficiency is how you extract more sugar from a mash and it is tied to the mash and sparge volumes With no stuck mashes I don't think too fine a grind could be called a "problem".  A lot more information is needed to find your answer.
[/quote]

I am very likely using incorrect terminology however. If you collect 9 gallons and boil down to 5.5 or you collect 8 gallons and boild down to 5.5 I don't think it follows that your OG would be identical. That would only be true if the extra gallon collected was pure water with 0 sugars. you WILL leave some sugars behind in the mash. if you sparge more you will get more of them thus your ending 5.5 gallons will have a higher gravity than if you sparge less. This is why you lose efficiency if you do a no-sparge brew you are leaving more sugars behind.

That being said I agree that is is not a problem
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Offline repo

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 12:48:45 PM »
 

I am very likely using incorrect terminology however. If you collect 9 gallons and boil down to 5.5 or you collect 8 gallons and boild down to 5.5 I don't think it follows that your OG would be identical. That would only be true if the extra gallon collected was pure water with 0 sugars. you WILL leave some sugars behind in the mash. if you sparge more you will get more of them thus your ending 5.5 gallons will have a higher gravity than if you sparge less. This is why you lose efficiency if you do a no-sparge brew you are leaving more sugars behind.

 


Well actually it is more about what efficiency means. Or about how you determine efficiency.   Then the doors of perception will open. At 75% efficiency you can collect 8 or 80 gallons it is the preboil gravity which changes. When you boil that 8 or 80 gallons down to the same final amount, say 5.5 gallons you will have the same post boil gravity. You see the efficiency is fixed, the volume you collect is part of the equation to determine efficiency as is the preboil gravity.  It's like yogi berra said about his pizza you better just cut it into 6 pieces I don't think I could eat 8 ;D

Offline malzig

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 08:00:48 PM »
Brewtarget said I would get 1.050 at 75% effiency. I got an OG of 1.060. Am I grinding my grain too fine? Was there something in my process that would get more extract than predicted? Typically when I use just barley Brewtarget is spot on.
There is no problem.  Brewtarget is just being too conservative.  75% efficiency is a little low for a 10.5# mash, unless you didn't sparge.  You got about 80%, which is closer to the 85% or so I would expect, with good conversion, minimal dead volume and a sparge..

Offline gymrat

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 09:02:34 AM »
Thankyou for all the replies. I would like to figure out what I did so I can repeat it. But I have a feeling euge is right. It was the gremlins :)

I have had stuck sparges twice. Both times my grain bill was 50% wheat. I have never had one with an all barley grain bill. I have been thinking about replacing my false bottom with a screen because during the summer I like wheat beers.

I have also noticed that my OG goes up when I use wheat. Just not this much for this small of amount of wheat.
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Offline Pi

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Re: What happened?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 07:21:23 AM »
Extract efficiency can vary between different maltsters, even different batches of malt. I am doing a series of pale ales using the same grain bill, just changing the hops. Trying to experiment with different hops. I did 3 batches using Briess 2 row and some crystal 40 (to be clear I crush my own) and the came to within +or- .05 plato. Last weekend though, I did the exact same grain bill (Briess) but got my grain from a different supplier, and got 2 points greater efficiency. I just added some topping water.
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