Author Topic: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors  (Read 5407 times)

Offline jamminbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • theAntipunk
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 09:06:43 AM »
I just brewed a hefe, and used the Weihenstephan yeast. Great banana aroma, and nice clove undertones.
Member, AHA
Member, Brew Brothers of Pikes Peak
BJCP judge# D1248
In caelo cerivisiae nil, hic igitur bibimus.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7891
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 09:49:38 AM »
I've brewed a lot of hefeweizens over the past 16 years or so and I have found that this is one beer beer that can be consumed extremely fresh with very little conditioning if any. I've had them ready in 10 days several times. Even though I have used the WY weihenstephan yeast many times with no problems the last time I tried the strain was the only time I ever experienced the weird sulphur issue. I don't know what it was but it has made me scared to try the strain again.

Perhaps there was something wrong with the particular batch of WY that went out. In my case it was from a 3 bbl pitch. I used it 2 more times from the same pitch hoping the sulfur would clear up on successive batches but it did not. Initially I thought I had racked to early as was suggested earlier in this thread. So the next time I let it sit for several days in the fermenter before racking. Still had the odd sulphur nose. Tried bubbling co2 up through bright and it did seem to blow off some but the aroma was never quite right.

I sure wish I had an answer to this weird problem because I like using WY (a professional pitch is a good deal cheaper from WY as opposed to WL) but I'll probably stay away from that strain from now on.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline hamiltont

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 987
  • Location: Somewhere in the Middle of Nebraska
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »
I've brewed a lot of hefeweizens over the past 16 years or so and I have found that this is one beer beer that can be consumed extremely fresh with very little conditioning if any. I've had them ready in 10 days several times. Even though I have used the WY weihenstephan yeast many times with no problems the last time I tried the strain was the only time I ever experienced the weird sulphur issue. I don't know what it was but it has made me scared to try the strain again.

Perhaps there was something wrong with the particular batch of WY that went out. In my case it was from a 3 bbl pitch. I used it 2 more times from the same pitch hoping the sulfur would clear up on successive batches but it did not. Initially I thought I had racked to early as was suggested earlier in this thread. So the next time I let it sit for several days in the fermenter before racking. Still had the odd sulphur nose. Tried bubbling co2 up through bright and it did seem to blow off some but the aroma was never quite right.

I sure wish I had an answer to this weird problem because I like using WY (a professional pitch is a good deal cheaper from WY as opposed to WL) but I'll probably stay away from that strain from now on.

I can't say this is the answer or not. Maybe just luck?? The combination of a ferulic acid rest and WPL380 has given me really good results. I think maybe WLP380 works better with the the ferulic acid rest than WLP300? The other difference between our processes is I start the fermentation @ 64F and when it starts to taper off alow it to go up to 68F & finish there. Cheers!!!
If Homebrew & BBQ aren't the answer, then you're askin' the wrong questions... Cheers!!!

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 04:31:04 PM »
Maybe a little yeast nutrient would help prevent the sulfur given that there is so much wheat in a hefe grist.

I like WLP300, for awhile I was blending 300 and 380 beers but it is too much hassle.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7891
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2012, 05:38:59 PM »
I use the White Labs nutrient for all my batches. Good thought though. Also, the first batch I brewed I fermented around 64. The second I did at 58. The 58 degree one actually had less of the sulphur character. I am totally stumped what the problem was. Definitely open to any suggestions.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2012, 07:36:12 PM »
I had some sulfur at 62F (with wlp380) but I don't always remember the nutrient.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline Thirsty_Monk

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2173
  • Eau Claire WI
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2012, 08:35:00 PM »
I sure wish I had an answer to this weird problem because I like using WY (a professional pitch is a good deal cheaper from WY as opposed to WL) but I'll probably stay away from that strain from now on.
Did you try BSI out of CO?
They have a lot of strains. (for commercial brewers only).
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline jmcamerlengo

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 08:33:29 AM »
Enhancing clove and banana character????  Why on earth would you want to do that?  I can't stand cloves in a beer, roasted pork shoulder, yes, beer no.

well, I completely disagree. Clove phenols in a hefeweizen is imperative IMO.

The ferulic acid rest is a good suggestion. I heard someone mention recently using a vial of WLP300 blended with a vial of wlp380. I am planning on trying that when I brew my dunkleweizen soon. You get nice clove character from the 380 and cleaner banana from the 300 hundred. One tip: ferment fairly cool. I pitch mine at 56-58 and keep the fermentation very low through the first third. This seems to enhance the clove character, otherwise the banana tends to become predominant. You may need to experiment with temps to strike the balance you prefer.

Yes!! Ferulic acid rest + blend of WLP380 and WLP300 + pitch at 56-58 and ramp to 62 over the the first day of fermentation makes a pretty awesome Hefe.
Jason
-Head Brewer, Brewtus Brewers in the Shenango Valley. Hopefully opening a brewpub/nano brewery in the next couple years.

Offline Malticulous

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 10:58:02 AM »
I have not been able to see a correlation between using the acid rest and not using one. Kai did do one experiment.
http://braukaiser.com/lifetype2/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=130&blogId=1

I've never used yeast nutrients and I never had sulfur problems.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 10:59:34 AM by Malticulous »

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7891
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 11:11:21 AM »
I have not been able to see a correlation between using the acid rest and not using one. Kai did do one experiment.
http://braukaiser.com/lifetype2/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=130&blogId=1

I've never used yeast nutrients and I never had sulfur problems.

I remember when Kia posted his info. I'll admit I haven't done an acid rest since I have gone commercial and I seem to get plenty of clove phenols. But I do believe that an acid rest can help, otherwise I find it hard to believe that any brewery would waste the time performing one. But I don't think it is essential.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline drmario47

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 08:39:18 AM »
Thanks again guys. Im gunna try it again today to see if the flavor improved.
Cheers

Offline Malticulous

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2012, 09:29:11 AM »
Thursday I brewed a hefeweizen. I did 113F for 10 minutes, 122 for 10 minutes, 145 for 30 pulling the the thick mash about 10 in. It boiled for about 10 minutes to bring the mash to 158. 20 minutes later I pulled thin mash, boiled it 10 minutes and used it for a mash out. I pitched a 6 hour old simple 1L Wy3068 starter into the air saturated 20L of wort, stirred it in well and took back 1L for another starter.

Yesterday I made a dunkelweizen with nearly the same mash schedule except it rested at 113 for 20 minutes. I used the 1L I stole from the hefeweizen for the starter.

I hope to get good banana and some clove, but I think 1L may make for too high of pitch rate. The hefeweizen seems to have stopped fermenting today. It blow off a little yesterday.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 09:33:23 AM by Malticulous »

Offline oly

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • beervana
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2012, 06:21:49 PM »
Thursday I brewed a hefeweizen. I did 113F for 10 minutes, 122 for 10 minutes, 145 for 30 pulling the the thick mash about 10 in. It boiled for about 10 minutes to bring the mash to 158. 20 minutes later I pulled thin mash, boiled it 10 minutes and used it for a mash out. I pitched a 6 hour old simple 1L Wy3068 starter into the air saturated 20L of wort, stirred it in well and took back 1L for another starter.

Yesterday I made a dunkelweizen with nearly the same mash schedule except it rested at 113 for 20 minutes. I used the 1L I stole from the hefeweizen for the starter.

I hope to get good banana and some clove, but I think 1L may make for too high of pitch rate. The hefeweizen seems to have stopped fermenting today. It blow off a little yesterday.

A bit of thread drift...but do you mind posting your dunkelweizen recipe? I have one scheduled for next week with 3068. Planning 60% wheat, 40% munich  but a bit clueless what to add to darken; considering to add one of either chocolate, chocolate wheat, or midnight wheat to give it some color. Any recommendations?

Offline hokerer

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2639
  • Manassas, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 06:27:28 PM »
A bit of thread drift...but do you mind posting your dunkelweizen recipe?

Not his particular recipe, but here's one from a ways back that managed to take a gold...

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=4001.msg46108#msg46108
Joe

Offline Malticulous

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
Re: Banana and Clove. Best yeast to bring out those flavors
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 08:07:41 AM »
This is the one fermenting now. I never brew one the same twice.
http://hopville.com/recipe/1081571/dunkelweizen-recipes/dunkel-weiss