Author Topic: British Ale Yeast Flocculation  (Read 4322 times)

Offline kmccaf

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
  • Kyle (Champaign, Hensley Township, Il)
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 04:48:15 PM »
I kind of like a drier beer so it suited me fine.  I compensated with a little lower bitterness and to some degree with a little more crystal and a higher mash temp.  I am guessing a little more residual sweetness from this less attenuative yeast is going to do the trick too.  I really love lots of permutations on the theme of a bitter though.

Also I am pretty sure I used the White Labs version of the yeast, although they're probably similar.

+1 I also love the 1469 strain because it attenuates so well, but I also love the differences a yeast makes when it comes to my bitters. I just made a SMaSH with 1469/Marris Otter/Styrian Golidings, and the sample I took was delicious. Haven't used the Fuller's yeast yet (my house stays very cool in the winter, and I fear it would drop too fast), but I did just use the WLP013, and found it to be quite tasty as well. Anyways, cheers to brewing bitters! Hope yours turns out well.
Kyle M.

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »
Thanks, your recipe sounds great.  For this recipe I used MO plus a small amount of amber malt, 10% British crystal I and Whitbread Goldings.

So far so good, I bumped the pressure to 15psi tonight and it ran right up with some rousing.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline mainebrewer

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Palermo, Maine
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 05:48:15 AM »
Most English style yeast does not like dramatic temp changes, especially a drop in temp.
It will almost always drop out of suspension and become almost impossible to get back into suspension.
It will ferment just fine in the low 60's but the temp needs to be stable.
I usually start it at 64 and then when the ferment slows raise the temp to 67 for the remainder of the time.
BJCP E1588 Certified

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2012, 06:23:52 AM »
The West Yorkshire wasn't as flocculant as this stuff.  I suppose that correlates with it bringing a more dry finish.  I think this Fuller strain must represent the extreme end of the group as far as flocculation.

Followup question, does the yeast continue to work on the beer, however slowly, when it is flocculated? 
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8197
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 10:19:12 AM »
Followup question, does the yeast continue to work on the beer, however slowly, when it is flocculated? 
Yes, the yeast will keep working on the sugars as long as they are exposed to them, but the sedimented yeast really limits the number of cells who have access.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2012, 10:42:05 AM »
Yes, the yeast will keep working on the sugars as long as they are exposed to them, but the sedimented yeast really limits the number of cells who have access.
True, surface area is extremely reduced on a cake.  I'll hope that this yeast stays suspended long enough to get me 70% attenuation.  It says 63-70%, for this 1.052 OG that'd put the FG in the range of 1.015 to 1.019.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 10:44:56 AM by tomsawyer »
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline dak0415

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
  • Winston-Salem, NC
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 11:37:02 AM »
Followup question, does the yeast continue to work on the beer, however slowly, when it is flocculated? 
Yes, the yeast will keep working on the sugars as long as they are exposed to them, but the sedimented yeast really limits the number of cells who have access.
That being said, remember that there is still quite a bit of yeast in suspension, even though the majority have hooked up.  That is why I recommend bumping the temp up after 3 days.  Keeps the little buggers up and the higher temps make them work faster before they decide to fall out.
Dave Koenig
Anything worth doing - is worth overdoing!

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 12:43:33 PM »
I put the carboy near the heat register before I left this morning.  Its a ground source heat pump so its not running much warmer than the house temp of 65F.  I did it because when I roused the yeast I didn't get a whole lot of gas this time.  I hope it didn't drop out, if so I'll have to pitch some other yeast.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline tubercle

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1639
  • Sweet Caroline
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 04:55:23 PM »

True, surface area is extremely reduced on a cake.  I'll hope that this yeast stays suspended long enough to get me 70% attenuation.  It says 63-70%, for this 1.052 OG that'd put the FG in the range of 1.015 to 1.019.

Beech wood aging. Problem solved ::) ::) ::)
Sweet Caroline where the Sun rises over the deep blue sea and sets somewhere beyond Tennessee

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3077
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 05:10:02 PM »
I thought they used plywood...
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 06:27:11 PM »
Do you like this yeast?
Arguably my favorite yeast.  Certainly the one I use in the most Ales.

wildknight

  • Guest
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 07:31:45 AM »
... Those genes should be inhibited in the presence of sugar, but cooling can cause the yeast to flocc...

Do you know of any data on which sugars regulate gene expression?  Is it limited to mono- vs di- vs trisaccharide groupings, or is it a specific sugar?  Could it be the increasing relative concentration of maltotriose as fermentables are consumed that triggers expression?

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8197
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 10:04:29 AM »
... Those genes should be inhibited in the presence of sugar, but cooling can cause the yeast to flocc...

Do you know of any data on which sugars regulate gene expression?  Is it limited to mono- vs di- vs trisaccharide groupings, or is it a specific sugar?  Could it be the increasing relative concentration of maltotriose as fermentables are consumed that triggers expression?
There are a lot of genes that are regulated by the presence of sugars.  The FLO genes are one  example, but as another, maltase is inhibited in the presence of glucose.

Anyway, as far as I know it isn't the increase in levels of maltotriose, it is the decrease of maltose that has the biggest affect on flocculation in beer.  The FLO genes should be inhibited by glucose, sucrose, and maltose.  This is from the FLO9 summary on SGD - mannose is a monosaccharide, and ammonium ions would come from a yeast nutrient like DAP.

Quote
The NewFLO-type, common in brewing strains, is inhibited by the sugars mannose, maltose, glucose, and sucrose, as well as by ammonium ions
Tom Schmidlin

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2012, 07:44:10 AM »
Good news on my bitter.  I was worried that the yeast might have dropped early because I only got CO2 for maybe 36 hours and its been drafty in the house.  I roused for a few days and this morning (day 5) I drew a sample for gravity measurement.  The stuff finished at 1.013, 75% attenuation!  Very happy with that, I guess I really mashed low.  Sample tastes good too.

So the pressurized fermentation was as success and the WLP002 worked like a champ.  I'm looking forward to putting it to work this year.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8197
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: British Ale Yeast Flocculation
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 11:01:03 AM »
Good news on my bitter.  I was worried that the yeast might have dropped early because I only got CO2 for maybe 36 hours and its been drafty in the house.  I roused for a few days and this morning (day 5) I drew a sample for gravity measurement.  The stuff finished at 1.013, 75% attenuation!  Very happy with that, I guess I really mashed low.  Sample tastes good too.

So the pressurized fermentation was as success and the WLP002 worked like a champ.  I'm looking forward to putting it to work this year.
Sounds awesome Lennie, I might have to try that.  I have a couple of pin locks with pressure relief gizmos that hook on the gas post.  I've never used them, but when I bought my system from a guy who was selling all of his stuff they came with it.  He used them as fermenters.
Tom Schmidlin