Author Topic: Dry pasteurizing sugar?  (Read 3568 times)

Offline paul

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Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« on: January 26, 2012, 07:50:55 AM »
I forgot to add sugar to the kettle in a Belgian golden strong ale, so I'm adding the 3 lb in two doses to the fermenter.  In the first dose, I added 1.5 lb of sugar to a small amount of water heated to around 180 for 12 minutes.  I really don't want to add more water.  The fermenter is close to full, and the amount of water needed to dissolve the sugar is significant.  Could I dry pasteurize it in a pot in the oven at 180 F?  Anyone ever do this?  Sugar melts a good bit higher than this temperature doesn't it?

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 09:18:08 AM »
you need to get the sugar into a liquid state before adding to the fermenter. heating it dry to melting will just give you caramelized sugar.

as for water needs, you should be able to dissolve a 1.5 of sugar in about a cup of water. if you don't want more water, pull some beer from the fermenter and use it to dissolve
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 09:24:36 AM »
Stuff can't live on sugar so theres no need to heat it.  Ever seen mold growing on sugar?  Microbes that land on sugar get the liquid sucked out of them.

You could heat it if you wanted though.  The melting point of sucrose is 367F so you could easily do 200F for fifteen minutes and get what you are after.
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 09:48:08 AM »
you need to get the sugar into a liquid state before adding to the fermenter. heating it dry to melting will just give you caramelized sugar.

as for water needs, you should be able to dissolve a 1.5 of sugar in about a cup of water. if you don't want more water, pull some beer from the fermenter and use it to dissolve

Drew's correct.  If you add dry sugar to your fermenter it will likely just sink to the bottom.  Without a lot of stirring you will never get it into suspension.

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2012, 09:51:34 AM »
You could heat it if you wanted though.  The melting point of sucrose is 367F so you could easily do 200F for fifteen minutes and get what you are after.
Not necessarily.  The things that can survive the harsh conditions in sugar (and survive is not the same as grow) can often withstand 200F as well.  An autoclave runs at 250F, plus moisture, plus pressure, for a 30 min cycle to be considered sterile.  IMO, heating dry sugar to 200F is a waste of time.
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Offline anje

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2012, 10:34:28 AM »
Would scooping some of the wort out of the fermenter, heating it, and dissolving the sugar in that be detrimental to the wort's quality?
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2012, 10:43:11 AM »
you need to get the sugar into a liquid state before adding to the fermenter. heating it dry to melting will just give you caramelized sugar.

as for water needs, you should be able to dissolve a 1.5 of sugar in about a cup of water. if you don't want more water, pull some beer from the fermenter and use it to dissolve

Drew's correct.  If you add dry sugar to your fermenter it will likely just sink to the bottom.  Without a lot of stirring you will never get it into suspension.

Paul

I have poured store-bought granulated sugar directly into a fermenter at high kreusen and it successfully fermented it all.  I did not have equal success with liquid sugar as there was some dark sweet liquid left on the bottom after transfer.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 10:48:09 AM »
Would scooping some of the wort out of the fermenter, heating it, and dissolving the sugar in that be detrimental to the wort's quality?

That should work just fine.  I'd recommend that you make sure your dissolved sugar mixture has cooled before you add it back to the fermenter.
Joe

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 10:53:01 AM »
Would scooping some of the wort out of the fermenter, heating it, and dissolving the sugar in that be detrimental to the wort's quality?
I wouldn't do it, since at this point it is beer and heating beer seems like a bad idea - if space is an issue I would dissolve the sugar in as little water as possible, remove (and dispose of) as much wort as needed to make room, and add the sugar liquid.  Or I'd just skip it and take what I got.

You could also add it dry, as Jeff suggests.  It won't be sterile, but the low pH and nutrients with the high alcohol of a BGS should inhibit quite a lot of things.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 12:25:14 PM »
I have poured store-bought granulated sugar directly into a fermenter at high kreusen and it successfully fermented it all.  I did not have equal success with liquid sugar as there was some dark sweet liquid left on the bottom after transfer.

I've also added dry sugar directly to the fermenter with great success.

I wouldn't pour all 1.5 lbs in at once though.  Perhaps a half pound at a time spaced out over a day or so.
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Offline paul

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2012, 03:05:16 PM »
Wow, lots of perspectives to ponder.   ;D  But it did get me thinking!

I have heard that honey is pretty resistance to nasties because the high osmotic pressure it exerts on them.  I don't know if that would translate well to dry sugar, but probably wet sugar.  Perhaps if I made a really thick solution with sugar and partially fermented wort and let it sit for a few minutes, at room temp, that would be enough to make the solution pretty inhospitable to life.  Then add that to the fermenter.  No heating required.

That would prevent diluting the wort any more.

It would minimize the chance of infection, if sugar even presents such a risk.

It would dissolve the sugar...whether that's a concern or not.

And I could avoid heating the wort/beer.

Thoughts?

Offline denny

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2012, 03:21:25 PM »
Thoughts?


Yes....stop worrying about pasteurizing the sugar. 
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2012, 03:30:50 PM »
You could heat it if you wanted though.  The melting point of sucrose is 367F so you could easily do 200F for fifteen minutes and get what you are after.
Not necessarily.  The things that can survive the harsh conditions in sugar (and survive is not the same as grow) can often withstand 200F as well.  An autoclave runs at 250F, plus moisture, plus pressure, for a 30 min cycle to be considered sterile.  IMO, heating dry sugar to 200F is a waste of time.
I wasn't suggesting it would sterilize the sugar, but it would kill some microbes on that stray dust particle.  Boiling is simply heating to 212F, using your logic one would worry about that not being good enough.  I also said it would make the guy feel better about dumping it in his fermentor.  We all have to feel OK about our process.

Lennie
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 03:32:38 PM »
Wow, lots of perspectives to ponder.   ;D  But it did get me thinking!

I have heard that honey is pretty resistance to nasties because the high osmotic pressure it exerts on them.  I don't know if that would translate well to dry sugar, but probably wet sugar.  Perhaps if I made a really thick solution with sugar and partially fermented wort and let it sit for a few minutes, at room temp, that would be enough to make the solution pretty inhospitable to life.  Then add that to the fermenter.  No heating required.

That would prevent diluting the wort any more.

It would minimize the chance of infection, if sugar even presents such a risk.

It would dissolve the sugar...whether that's a concern or not.

And I could avoid heating the wort/beer.

Thoughts?
Its possible a high osmotic pressure solution would eventually kill microbes, I don't think it would very effective in the short term.  IT might raisin them up is all.

I agree with Denny.  Throw in the sugar and swirl the carboy every so often .
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Dry pasteurizing sugar?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 03:34:27 PM »
Does the sugar production process involve any heating?  Maybe it is somewhat sterile to begin with.  It certainly doesn't seem to contain much organic matter other than sucrose.  Unless theres a hole in the corner of the sack and mouse turds nearby.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO