Author Topic: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...  (Read 1111 times)

Offline wiley

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 09:35:32 PM »
You may have problems with the building inspector or the health inspector with that much steam in the building. Just depends on your local regulations and how strict your inspectors are.

I have my doubts as to you being able to get the jacket on that tank to pass code for a steam jacket, unless it was used by one before. I'm sure you know how dangerous a broken seam on a steam jacketed tank could be.

That makes sense about the ambient steam -- I'd definitely have to install a sufficiently sized Type 1 hood (I'm assuming), which may prove problematic.

Definitely some more discussions to be had, both with some engineering friends and inspectors.

Offline toddster

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 07:44:23 AM »
I wouldn't use steam on it for a boil kettle. I wouldn't use steam on it for a step mash. You don't know how they put the jacket on and what type of insulation is in there.

It would be really good for a step mash with a hydronic boiler.

My rant on steam boilers is: They are expensive to install and maintain. Yes you can find a good used boiler but to pay a fitter to install it is very expensive. Most states require you to have a boiler operator license with yearly inspections. The inspection requires you to tear the boiler down. You will also have to have an insurance on it.

Now for my opinion on direct fire. The best and cheapest method for up to 10 bbls. Hands down.

Good Luck Todd

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 07:47:38 AM »
The only draw back I could see about using that tank as a MT is you would probably be slightly limited on the size of your mash. But my guess is you could easily pull off a 1.080 beer but you may need some sugar additions or DME to get much higher than that. I personally only rarely care to drink or brew a beer much higher than 1.080. On the current system I am running (about to become my pilot system) I have had to use DME a couple of times to reach 1.090. I didn't really consider it a problem.
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Offline wiley

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 08:26:01 AM »
I wouldn't use steam on it for a boil kettle. I wouldn't use steam on it for a step mash. You don't know how they put the jacket on and what type of insulation is in there.

It would be really good for a step mash with a hydronic boiler.

My rant on steam boilers is: They are expensive to install and maintain. Yes you can find a good used boiler but to pay a fitter to install it is very expensive. Most states require you to have a boiler operator license with yearly inspections. The inspection requires you to tear the boiler down. You will also have to have an insurance on it.

Now for my opinion on direct fire. The best and cheapest method for up to 10 bbls. Hands down.

Good Luck Todd

I presume you're referring to high pressure steam? I completely agree with your (and previous) comments about the potential for some serious harm that could come as a result of a failed jacket and the difficulties associated with HPS. I actually have no interest in operating a high pressure steam boiler at this stage, and would have to seriously consider the implications of doing so in future expansion plans.

However, my thoughts were that if this tank was manufactured with glycol chilling in mind, the jacket would be rated for ~15 PSI and MIGHT be well suited for low pressure steam. Ensuring that the jacket could hold 15+ PSI is definitely worth testing before I make a decision one way or the other (if in fact I do end up using this as a BK). As far as the insulation type, that’s a good point and worth checking in to as well.

I still have high hopes for this tank – I’ll be picking it up tomorrow, so I can post some additional pics / specs then.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 11:21:03 AM »
The only draw back I could see about using that tank as a MT is you would probably be slightly limited on the size of your mash. But my guess is you could easily pull off a 1.080 beer but you may need some sugar additions or DME to get much higher than that. I personally only rarely care to drink or brew a beer much higher than 1.080. On the current system I am running (about to become my pilot system) I have had to use DME a couple of times to reach 1.090. I didn't really consider it a problem.
I think you could easily pull off a much stronger beer, just at a much lower final volume ;D
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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 11:45:39 AM »
The only draw back I could see about using that tank as a MT is you would probably be slightly limited on the size of your mash. But my guess is you could easily pull off a 1.080 beer but you may need some sugar additions or DME to get much higher than that. I personally only rarely care to drink or brew a beer much higher than 1.080. On the current system I am running (about to become my pilot system) I have had to use DME a couple of times to reach 1.090. I didn't really consider it a problem.
I think you could easily pull off a much stronger beer, just at a much lower final volume ;D

Good point. That is what a lot of commercial breweries do.
Keith Y.
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Offline wiley

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 11:48:24 AM »
The only draw back I could see about using that tank as a MT is you would probably be slightly limited on the size of your mash. But my guess is you could easily pull off a 1.080 beer but you may need some sugar additions or DME to get much higher than that. I personally only rarely care to drink or brew a beer much higher than 1.080. On the current system I am running (about to become my pilot system) I have had to use DME a couple of times to reach 1.090. I didn't really consider it a problem.
I think you could easily pull off a much stronger beer, just at a much lower final volume ;D

Good point. That is what a lot of commercial breweries do.

Or double mash...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 01:17:13 PM by wiley »

Online morticaixavier

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 11:48:53 AM »
The only draw back I could see about using that tank as a MT is you would probably be slightly limited on the size of your mash. But my guess is you could easily pull off a 1.080 beer but you may need some sugar additions or DME to get much higher than that. I personally only rarely care to drink or brew a beer much higher than 1.080. On the current system I am running (about to become my pilot system) I have had to use DME a couple of times to reach 1.090. I didn't really consider it a problem.
I think you could easily pull off a much stronger beer, just at a much lower final volume ;D

Good point. That is what a lot of commercial breweries do.

Pretty Things in Boston does a double mash when they want a higher gravity beer than the mashtun will allow. Mash half the grain, run off and then use the wort in place of mash water with the second half of the grain. just another option.

As Wiley says
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Offline wiley

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 10:49:25 PM »
After 16 hours on the road and almost 900 miles, the tank arrived safe and sound at the temporary / pilot location.





The jacket on this bad boy looks solid from the outset (there's about 4" worth of jacketing and insulation between the outer shell and the inner kettle), but needs some rigorous cleaning and testing to determine if steam is the right route. Putting a kettle stack on the lid is going to be easy-peasy (check out the Frankenbrew DVD where the guy put a stack collar on a grundy), and after speaking with a local distillery about their steam setup, it sounds like this tank could be the ticket (looked remarkably similar to their column still setup). More to come on fitting and decisions....

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 10:11:09 PM »
Nice looking surge tanks in the back ground!
Tribute Brewing

Offline wiley

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Re: Cart before the horse? Maybe - meh...
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 10:15:24 PM »
These guys had some serious stainless!!

I found the coolest grant setup when I was there... I'll have to post some pics of it when I get a chance to snap a few pics. Until then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT0VvPZSMIw

Offline wiley

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Bad news...
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 08:40:40 PM »
Major, I think you're right -- the future life of this tank is probably going to be a mash tun...

Two of the four jacket zones don't hold pressure. Looks like the old adage of "They don't make 'em like they used to" holds, but not in a positive light. It appears the material used for the jacketing is simply steel piping :-\

Any suggestions on where I might find a 7 BBL brew kettle?