Author Topic: Speed Starter?  (Read 2666 times)

Offline gmac

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Speed Starter?
« on: January 27, 2012, 08:01:38 AM »
I was all set to brew today but then I realized that I'd forgotten to get a starter going.  I intended to but forgot before I went off to work.  I'm not gonna brew because I don't have a starter ready and I know that I need one but how quick can one be done?

Any tips or suggestions for getting a starter done in a minimal amount of time?  Normally I've been planning on at least 3 days prior to cold crashing (bearing in mind I don't have a stir plate). 

Offline krustybb

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 08:11:20 AM »
I have had one be completely done in 24 hours. What yeast are you using?

Offline gmac

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 08:15:16 AM »
This was gonna be WLP007 but I'm thinking more for any ale yeast.

Offline drmario47

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 08:45:51 AM »
I used to make a starter in the morning and by the time I got to brewing and cleanup I would just pitch it then. It usually took 8 hours before I would pitch it but I swirled it around every 10 minutes (I don't have a stir plate either). All the beers came out fine that I used that quick starter method. What is the size of the batch?

Offline dzlater

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 05:57:09 AM »
The fastest start to fermentation I ever had, I made a starter the morning of brew day, no stir plate.
Took off within an hour or two. white labs 004 Irish ale yeast.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline Malticulous

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 09:53:17 AM »
It's always best to use similar wort at near the same temprature and pitch it still active. You want glycogen levels as high as possible in pitching yeast. Chilling to decant seems like torture.

Offline denny

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 10:44:34 AM »
It's always best to use similar wort at near the same temprature and pitch it still active. You want glycogen levels as high as possible in pitching yeast. Chilling to decant seems like torture.

actually, according to what I've read, it's a good way to preserve glycogen reserves.  The yeast goes dormant and doesn't consume those reserves.  Once you warm it up, they start feeding.  You want that to happen in the wort, not the starter.  At any rate, I can tell you from experience that cold pitching has worked great for me for well over 12 years that I've been doing it.
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2012, 10:51:49 AM »
Actually dormant yeast do use those reserves,
Quote from: Inge Russell
Ideally, the glycogen content of the pitching yeast should be high. Since glycogen reserves are depleted rapidly in storage, yeast that is repitched 24–48 h after collection is preferred, but it should be remembered that the rate of glycogen depletion is dependent on a number of factors, yeast strain and brewing conditions. Low glycogen levels in the pitching yeast result from unsatisfactory yeast handling practices (such as high storage temperature and extended storage time) and this correlates with low cell viability, extended fermentation times, and high end of fermentation diacetyl, acetaldehyde, and sulfur dioxide levels.

She knows a lot more about than I do. But I totally agree, all that maters in the end is you make beer.

Offline ukolowiczd

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 10:56:19 AM »
Can you get another pack? Just pitch two. When I'm rushed or forgetful, I just pitch two and it works fine.

Offline Malticulous

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 11:14:14 AM »
If you can get the yeast to bud once you have the same number as two packs, but with higher vitality (glycogen levels). Noonan wrote yeast should bud with in two to six hours. That's right inline with something  Jamil wrote at mrmalty.com.
Quote
If you're making a smaller starter, it is better to just pitch the entire active starter within about 6 to 12 hours of pitching the yeast into the starter.

If you use the same wort at the same temp you can pitch huge active starters like the big brewers do.

Offline bigpoppa502

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2012, 11:36:36 AM »
I'm pretty much a noob and have not used a starter before. Does anyone have a surefire procedure that's not too complicated that they would care to share?

Offline firedog23

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2012, 11:39:03 AM »
I'm pretty much a noob and have not used a starter before. Does anyone have a surefire procedure that's not too complicated that they would care to share?

+1
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2012, 12:22:02 PM »
This video is good,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng0Ib7n4DIA
The Northerbrewer FAQ section is a great resource.
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=100676

Offline denny

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2012, 01:15:33 PM »
I'm pretty much a noob and have not used a starter before. Does anyone have a surefire procedure that's not too complicated that they would care to share?

+1

This is excellent info...

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Speed Starter?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2012, 01:48:46 PM »
She knows a lot more about than I do. But I totally agree, all that maters in the end is you make beer.
I think you're missing the full context of the quote.

Quote from: Inge Russell
Ideally, the glycogen content of the pitching yeast should be high. Since glycogen reserves are depleted rapidly in storage, yeast that is repitched 24–48 h after collection is preferred, but it should be remembered that the rate of glycogen depletion is dependent on a number of factors, yeast strain and brewing conditions. Low glycogen levels in the pitching yeast result from unsatisfactory yeast handling practices (such as high storage temperature and extended storage time) and this correlates with low cell viability, extended fermentation times, and high end of fermentation diacetyl, acetaldehyde, and sulfur dioxide levels.

She also includes the caveat that "the rate of glycogen depletion is dependent on a number of factors, yeast strain and brewing conditions".

So chilling overnight to decant will still retain glycogen reserves and let you pitch your yeast without the starter liquid.

Also, why is she saying 24-48 hours?  Why not 0-48 hours?  Does she think there is some advantage to waiting a day?
Tom Schmidlin