Author Topic: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?  (Read 1878 times)

Offline redzim

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pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« on: February 10, 2012, 02:21:39 PM »
I have a pretty decent recipe for a Dusseldorf Alt-style ale that I make with US-05, fermented pretty cold (59-60) and then lagered about 3 weeks. It comes close to what it should be.  Maybe not quite as fruity as it would be with a German ale yeast, but close.

However in a couple weeks I will have a nice cake of W-34/70 (same as WLP830 and Wyeast 2124, AFAIK) and am wondering if anyone has ideas on how the beer might turn out if I fermented the same Alt-style recipe with that instead. It seems to ferment best around 50-51, in my experience (I've used it for Bo Pils and German Pils, Oktoberfests, Viennas, & Maibocks, all with pretty nice results).  Would I still a get a beer in the Alt style using this lager yeast instead of an ale year? Or would it be too weird?

I'm not going to try to win competitions with this one, just want to know if it is going to be close enough...

-red

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 02:32:17 PM »
Having lost a few afternoons in Duesseldorf drinking altbier, fuity esters are something I don't remember in those beers.  Malt and a bitter finish, yes, that is what I remember.

Wyeast 1007 is the cleanest ale yeast I have used.  It might be good to try an alt with 34/70, and let us know what the results are.

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Offline weithman5

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 02:44:09 PM »
I am wondering if anyone has ideas on how the beer might turn out if I fermented the same Alt-style recipe with that instead

I'm not going to try to win competitions with this one, just want to know if it is going to be close enough...

-red


answer: good
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Offline redzim

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
Having lost a few afternoons in Duesseldorf drinking altbier, fuity esters are something I don't remember in those beers. 

Funny, I have long associated alts with just the faintest hint of something raisiny in the aroma... however my stints in Deutschland were almost completely in the former East, and the only alt available was Diebels, bottled of course... I've never had the experience of enjoying it fresh from the tap in Dusseldorf. (One day!)  So when I think of alts I'm really just thinking Diebels - which may or may not be the best example...

-red

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 03:34:02 PM »
I got so that I would avoid Diebels.  Yes - too much caramel and I would agree that there is a raisin note in that one.  From the yeast or the malt?  Don't know.

Drinking alt in the Altstadt is something to have on your bucket list.  I just head to Zum Uerige and drink there.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 03:35:33 PM »
North german Alts are often brewed with lager yeast.

Offline denny

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 04:25:18 PM »
I got so that I would avoid Diebels.  Yes - too much caramel and I would agree that there is a raisin note in that one.  From the yeast or the malt?  Don't know.

Drinking alt in the Altstadt is something to have on your bucket list.  I just head to Zum Uerige and drink there.

+1 to avoiding Diebels.
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Offline Hokerer

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 04:44:33 PM »
North german Alts are often brewed with lager yeast.

Beat me to it...

Dusseldorf Altbier (BJCP Cat 7C)...

Quote
Ingredients: Grists vary, but usually consist of German base malts (usually Pils, sometimes Munich) with small amounts of crystal, chocolate, and/or black malts used to adjust color. Occasionally will include some wheat. Spalt hops are traditional, but other noble hops can also be used. Moderately carbonate water. Clean, highly attenuative ale yeast. A step mash or decoction mash program is traditional.

...while Northern German Altbiew (Cat 7A)...

Quote
Ingredients: Typically made with a Pils base and colored with roasted malt or dark crystal. May include small amounts of Munich or Vienna malt. Noble hops. Usually made with an attenuative lager yeast.
Joe

Offline bluesman

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 04:59:52 PM »
North german Alts are often brewed with lager yeast.

+1

Here's the BJCP style guideline.

7A. Northern German Altbier

Aroma: Subtle malty, sometimes grainy aroma. Low to no noble hop aroma. Clean, lager character with very restrained ester profile. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Light copper to light brown color; very clear from extended cold conditioning. Low to moderate off-white to white head with good retention.

Flavor: Fairly bitter yet balanced by a smooth and sometimes sweet malt character that may have a rich, biscuity and/or lightly caramelly flavor. Dry finish often with lingering bitterness. Clean, lager character sometimes with slight sulfury notes and very low to no esters. Very low to medium noble hop flavor. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body. Moderate to moderately high carbonation. Smooth mouthfeel.

Overall Impression: A very clean and relatively bitter beer, balanced by some malt character. Generally darker, sometimes more caramelly, and usually sweeter and less bitter than Düsseldorf Altbier.

Comments: Most Altbiers produced outside of Düsseldorf are of the Northern German style. Most are simply moderately bitter brown lagers. Ironically “alt” refers to the old style of brewing (i.e., making ales), which makes the term “Altbier” somewhat inaccurate and inappropriate. Those that are made as ales are fermented at cool ale temperatures and lagered at cold temperatures (as with Düsseldorf Alt).

Ingredients: Typically made with a Pils base and colored with roasted malt or dark crystal. May include small amounts of Munich or Vienna malt. Noble hops. Usually made with an attenuative lager yeast.

Vital Statistics:

OG: 1.046 – 1.054
IBUs: 25 – 40
FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 13 – 19
ABV: 4.5 – 5.2%

Commercial Examples: DAB Traditional, Hannen Alt, Schwelmer Alt, Grolsch Amber, Alaskan Amber, Long Trail Ale, Otter Creek Copper Ale, Schmaltz’ Alt
Ron Price

Offline redzim

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 07:45:49 PM »
Well I'm going to give it shot with the lager yeast, and will report back.  Anyone have any idea which "real" Alts are imported into the USA?  Of course I'm sure each state is different... just so I can get a feel for something other than Diebels.

Offline denny

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 08:48:57 PM »
I can get 3 different versions of Zum Uerige around here.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: pseudo-Alt with a lager yeast?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012, 09:17:42 PM »
isnt a dusseldorf altbier a category 7C?
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