Author Topic: Mash Hops vs. FWH  (Read 2961 times)

Offline dhacker

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Mash Hops vs. FWH
« on: January 26, 2010, 05:14:18 AM »
For this year's Tennessee Brewfest, I'm planning on cloning  all commercial beers. (10) At least one of the recipes I'm entertaining (Pliny) calls for mash hops. I've never used hops in the mash and was curious how this differs from First Wort Hopping?

Can it affect the pH level in the mash?
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Offline denny

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 09:37:36 AM »
I tried mash hopping 3 times before deciding that it added nothing to the beer and was a waste of hops.  I really don't know about it affecting pH levels.  My WAG would be not much if at all.
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Offline dhacker

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 10:16:04 AM »
I tried mash hopping 3 times before deciding that it added nothing to the beer and was a waste of hops. 

Denny . . as in nothing at all, or nothing over FWH?
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Offline denny

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 10:18:19 AM »
Nothing...no detectable effects at all.  I used them in 3 recipes I'd brewed often and was very familiar with and I couldn't tell any difference from not using them.
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Offline dhacker

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 12:04:26 PM »
'ppreciate it, Sir . .
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Offline tom

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 12:13:15 PM »
In that recipe I use the Mash hops as FWH instead.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 12:26:57 PM »
FWIW, I wouldn't use any recipe for PTE but the one Vinnie gives out himself (http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf)

No Randall, no MASH hops and no stinking FWH either!!!    :D ;D
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 12:43:46 PM »
FWIW, I wouldn't use any recipe for PTE but the one Vinnie gives out himself (http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf)

No Randall, no MASH hops and no stinking FWH either!!!    :D ;D

I see your West Coast tendencies at work.  ;D
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Offline blatz

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 12:45:35 PM »
I see your West Coast tendencies at work.  ;D

 ;D
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Offline dhacker

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 12:52:35 PM »
FWIW, I wouldn't use any recipe for PTE but the one Vinnie gives out himself (http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf)

No Randall, no MASH hops and no stinking FWH either!!!    :D ;D

Thanks for the link. I like simplifying!  :)
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 06:12:13 PM »
Vinnie had given out a recipe for Pliny the Elder 4 or so years ago. 

The one on Fred's site is the new one published this summer in Zymurgy.  No mash hops, no FWH, no Chinook, etc.  That is on my list of ones to make.  The old recipe was very good.  Oh, and Vinnie said on Brew Strong that there is some Amarillo in Pliny now (he didn't say when or how much).

As a side story, I brewed the old recipe when it was given out.  Entered it in the Michigan state fair, as a DIPA.  The judges knocked it for being "too hoppy for style".  They were not BJCP, to make that clear, but still...  ???.
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Offline mikeypedersen

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 06:29:03 PM »
Vinnie had given out a recipe for Pliny the Elder 4 or so years ago. 

The one on Fred's site is the new one published this summer in Zymurgy.  No mash hops, no FWH, no Chinook, etc.  That is on my list of ones to make.  The old recipe was very good.  Oh, and Vinnie said on Brew Strong that there is some Amarillo in Pliny now (he didn't say when or how much).

As a side story, I brewed the old recipe when it was given out.  Entered it in the Michigan state fair, as a DIPA.  The judges knocked it for being "too hoppy for style".  They were not BJCP, to make that clear, but still...  ???.
I've entered the Old Recipe for Pliny in 2 different BJCP sanctioned events.  It was a little past it's prime, maybe 5 or so months old (that fresh hop aroma almost changes by the day for a couple of weeks) but still took silver in both.

Offline bspisak

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2010, 05:49:23 PM »
And where can one find the old recipe?

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2010, 08:14:46 PM »
And where can one find the old recipe?

I think Vinnie was talking about it in his firs appearance at BN Sunday session.
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Offline nyakavt

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Re: Mash Hops vs. FWH
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 06:32:26 AM »
And where can one find the old recipe?

I think Vinnie was talking about it in his firs appearance at BN Sunday session.

That one linked on Fred's site, AFAIK, is the original Pliny homebrew recipe.  I seem to remember them discussing that the recipe was 'out there' on that first Sunday Session, but for some reason not actually giving the recipe on the show.  It's been so long, I'd have to listen to it again to be sure.  

Vinnie did mention Amarillo in the current rendition, as well as hop extract for the early bittering.  I think the hop extract is critical if you want to make a clone of the current commercial version.  I brewed one using the original recipe and it seemed far more bitter than the commercial version I had.  Still a fine beer mind you, but it was more like the longshot DIPA than Pliny.  Not quite as harsh as the longshot beer, but not as mellow as the Pliny.  The aroma was absolutely incredible though, it's like I took 20 lbs of citrus zest and threw it in the fermenter.