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malt crushing and wort polyphenols

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Kaiser:
Over the past few days I have been reading most of what I can read from Narziss and Back’s Technologie der Wuerzebereitung on Google Books and the amount data given in that book is just amazing.

Here is something I’d like to share:


(source: http://books.google.de/books?id=rlcwl7aS8KYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=technologie+der+w%C3%BCrzebereitung&cd=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

It shows the polyphenol concentration of the cast out wort in mg/l (top row) as a function of the way the malt was crushed. The top header is: mash filter (pulverized grist), lautertun crushed dry, lautertun crushed conditioned and wet crushed. As you can see, in this case conditioned malt left 13% less polyhenols in the cast out wort.

While there seems to be a difference in the wort analytics this does not show if there will be a difference in taste. polyphenols are not necessarily and in some other section they of this book they are also considered as contributors to the body of the beer.

I hope I didn’t scare anyone into conditioning their malt now. I just thought that this was an interesting data point which I haven’t seen before.

Kai

dean:
Over the last week I've been reading practically every book and magazine I have so I can't remember which one or where I read it but it went into some depth about pH creeping up in the mash and how malt conditioning effected it.  I do remember it saying that 2% moisture (misting) added to the grains about 15 to 20 minutes before crushing lessened the release of polyphenols.  It also noted that polyphenols create some astringency.  It also stated that the longer the mash water is allowed to stay in contact with the grain husks more polyphenols are created or released.

I don't know, I'm not a scientist but it makes sense to me and I believe it, especially after doing a couple of overnight mashes and having one which should have been right for my water come out fairly decent except for a finishing astringency.  It tastes good while consuming it, has good mouthfeel going down but it dries my mouth afterward.  Its almost like a bitter but its not really bitter.  Its hard for me to describe it I guess.  Anyway I'm dumping it because I can't bring myself to drink it anymore as I find myself anticipating the astringency everytime I do and I wouldn't give it to anybody either now.   :(

Kaiser:

--- Quote from: dean on January 26, 2010, 11:08:42 AM ---… especially after doing a couple of overnight mashes and having one which should have been right for my water come out fairly decent except for a finishing astringency
--- End quote ---

It is a well known fact that longer mashes release more polyphenols and that the move to shorter mashing by German brewers has resulted in softer beers. The extreme of this thinking is endosperm mashing or Schrotmaischen, where you only mash the flour and grits first and return the husk fraction late in the mash before it is needed for lautering.

Kai

blatz:

--- Quote from: Kaiser on January 26, 2010, 11:16:06 AM ---
--- Quote from: dean on January 26, 2010, 11:08:42 AM ---It is a well known fact that longer mashes release more polyphenols and that the move to shorter mashing by German brewers

--- End quote ---

how short?
--- End quote ---

Kaiser:

--- Quote from: blatz on January 26, 2010, 11:59:02 AM ---how short?

--- End quote ---

90 - 120 min

Kai

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