Author Topic: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake  (Read 1413 times)

Offline srnoel

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Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« on: February 14, 2012, 01:17:58 PM »
Alright I got another question.

I don't have any carboy's open and I want to brew this barelywine sooner than later.  The way I wanted to fix this problem was to just bottle one of the beers earlier than I like too.  Usually when the beer has hits the FG and levels off for a few days I like to let it sit on the yeast cake for about another week or so.  I do this because I think, and may have read somewhere, that towards the end of fermentation the yeast will consume some of the byproducts that were produced the in the early stages of fermentation.  How true this is and how much it actually helps the beer I am not sure.

The question I have is will bottling a beer and letting bottle condition give similar effects to letting the beer sit on the yeast cake for an extended period?

Offline euge

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 01:40:24 PM »
Taste your beer. Is it ready?

That being said with refermentation in the bottle that could help clean it up a bit.
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Online tschmidlin

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 01:53:25 PM »
It is exactly this kind of problem that leads most of us to buy another carboy, and why I have 10 or so.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline a10t2

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 01:59:57 PM »
The question I have is will bottling a beer and letting bottle condition give similar effects to letting the beer sit on the yeast cake for an extended period?

Similar, yes. Identical, probably not.

But if you had an otherwise healthy fermentation there's nothing wrong with transferring the beer off of the yeast 2-3 days after it reaches FG.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 08:19:28 AM »
It is exactly this kind of problem that leads most of us to buy another carboy, and why I have 10 or so.

+1
I hate that feeling of being tanked locked.  "Hmmm, if I bottle what's left in that keg, then I can rack this secondary to it, then rack that primary to the secondary, then I can brew another".  It's a good think AG takes a few hours...
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Offline jmcamerlengo

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 08:31:29 AM »
What kind of yeast? this can also make a little difference.

You could always pick up another bucket or carboy....+1 to what Tom said, haha
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 10:04:32 AM »
I hate that feeling of being tanked locked.  "Hmmm, if I bottle what's left in that keg, then I can rack this secondary to it, then rack that primary to the secondary, then I can brew another".  It's a good think AG takes a few hours...

Ain't that the truth :)  Ending up having to bottle two complete batches so I could brew up the Quad (2-hour mash, 90-min boil) that I wanted.  Made for an extremely busy weekend.
Joe

Offline richardt

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 10:46:11 AM »
Without the benefit of time and serial hydrometer readings, you won't know for sure if you've hit FG.
Some swear by the FFT (Fast Ferment Test), but I'm too lazy.

The only danger I see with bottling earlier on lees is that you're risking excessive carbonation (gushers or bottle bombs).

If there's any doubt, hold the bottling/priming sugar addition. 

You only need a few SG points drop to get adequate carbonation in the bottle or keg (i.e., spunding).  I read somewhere that green beer has 0.9 volumes of CO2 and that you get about 0.6 volumes of CO2 for every further drop in SG while in the bottle.    So, as you can see, bottling at SG of 1.016 (0.9 vol CO2) and having a FG of  1.012 in the bottle (0.9 vol + 2.4 vol = 3.3 volumes of CO2 without any priming sugar additions).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 10:51:00 AM »
Without the benefit of time and serial hydrometer readings, you won't know for sure if you've hit FG.
Some swear by the FFT (Fast Ferment Test), but I'm too lazy.

The only danger I see with bottling earlier on lees is that you're risking excessive carbonation (gushers or bottle bombs).

If there's any doubt, hold the bottling/priming sugar addition. 

You only need a few SG points drop to get adequate carbonation in the bottle or keg (i.e., spunding).  I read somewhere that green beer has 0.9 volumes of CO2 and that you get about 0.6 volumes of CO2 for every further drop in SG while in the bottle.    So, as you can see, bottling at SG of 1.016 (0.9 vol CO2) and having a FG of  1.012 in the bottle (0.9 vol + 2.4 vol = 3.3 volumes of CO2 without any priming sugar additions).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The residual volumes have alot to do with the temp of the beer so it's wrong to say that green beer has x volumes of CO2. green beer at 60* has x volumes of CO2 is more accurate. It's very risky to attempt to bottle before FG is reached as you don't know exactly what the FG will be. there are just too many variables. If you do an FFT then you will have some idea and you can try it but you risk either over carbed beer or undercarbed beer. it really is best practice to wait till you have pretty confidently hit FG and then add priming sugar. and you should use a carb calculator and give it the highest temp the beer reached after fermentation was more or less complete so that the level of residual CO2 is taken into account.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Bottling and Leaving the beer on the yeast cake
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 10:55:41 AM »
True.  An ale fermented at 65°F will have 0.9 volumes of residual CO2 while a lager fermented at 50°F will have 1.2 volumes.