General Category > Extract/Partial Mash Brewing

That extract "twang"

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brewmonk:
Just curious about the extract "twang" that kit and extract beers get dissed for.

Is the flavor mainly in LME and the prehopped kits, or does DME tend to give that flavor too?

And I'm still trying to understand what that "twang" is supposed to taste like.  I've heard "umami" "savory" or "meaty" but I'm either not that trained on the taste, or I have just never had a noticeably "meaty" beer  :o.  Is there a way to doctor a beer to understand that flavor?

bigchicken:
I do not notice a "twang" using LME, but a bit of unfermentable sweetness from using old LME. If your ingredients are fresh there does not seem to be a noticeable difference from an all grain beer.

euge:

--- Quote from: brewmonk on February 18, 2012, 04:20:43 AM ---Just curious about the extract "twang" that kit and extract beers get dissed for.

Is the flavor mainly in LME and the prehopped kits, or does DME tend to give that flavor too?

And I'm still trying to understand what that "twang" is supposed to taste like.  I've heard "umami" "savory" or "meaty" but I'm either not that trained on the taste, or I have just never had a noticeably "meaty" beer  :o.  Is there a way to doctor a beer to understand that flavor?

--- End quote ---

That's probably from leaving it on the yeast for too long and other reasons, and why I prefer to transfer sooner than later. What I've seen with old extract is a "cidery" twang not a savory one.

dmtaylor:
To me the twang tastes sort of like a combination of two things: caramel and banana.  But it's not exactly the same as either of those.  The banana-ish flavor might possibly be due to fermentation temperature more than the extract, but the unusual stale oxidized sort of character of the caramel-ish flavor is very distinctive and is the primary taste sensation.  I think it can happen with DME, but is more prevalent with LME.  I believe it is caused by a combination of concentrated wort boils that are part of the extract production process, with oxidation occurring over time in the packaging.  And then the problem might be exascerbated (sp?) by concentrated boiling when reconstituting the wort.  In other words, it helps to do full wort boils, rather than boiling concentrated wort and then diluting at the end.  Preventive measures can be taken by using the freshest and lightest extracts available, and boiling with the full volume and not concentrating in the boil.  One other key thing about extracts is they contain high concentrations of salt from the production process, so it's a very good idea to use distilled or RO water.  I think it is likely the extra salt that also contributes to detection of the extract twang flavor.  So try using purer water to see if that helps as well.

Hope this helps a few people out there.  A lot of it is theoretical (on my part), but I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense when you stop to think about it.

dannyjed:

--- Quote from: dmtaylor on February 18, 2012, 08:12:18 AM ---To me the twang tastes sort of like a combination of two things: caramel and banana.  But it's not exactly the same as either of those.  The banana-ish flavor might possibly be due to fermentation temperature more than the extract, but the unusual stale oxidized sort of character of the caramel-ish flavor is very distinctive and is the primary taste sensation.  I think it can happen with DME, but is more prevalent with LME.  I believe it is caused by a combination of concentrated wort boils that are part of the extract production process, with oxidation occurring over time in the packaging.  And then the problem might be exascerbated (sp?) by concentrated boiling when reconstituting the wort.  In other words, it helps to do full wort boils, rather than boiling concentrated wort and then diluting at the end.  Preventive measures can be taken by using the freshest and lightest extracts available, and boiling with the full volume and not concentrating in the boil.  One other key thing about extracts is they contain high concentrations of salt from the production process, so it's a very good idea to use distilled or RO water.  I think it is likely the extra salt that also contributes to detection of the extract twang flavor.  So try using purer water to see if that helps as well.

Hope this helps a few people out there.  A lot of it is theoretical (on my part), but I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense when you stop to think about it.

--- End quote ---
I totally agree with this.  I think it is also important to stress on having enough healthy yeast and controlling fermentation temperatures.  When I began brewing, my fermentation temps were in the 70's and my beer was mediocre at best.

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