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Author Topic: Lalleman Go Ferm  (Read 5768 times)

Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Lalleman Go Ferm
« on: April 18, 2012, 11:46:01 am »
This is an issue of encountering Diacetyl when using Go Ferm from Lallemand.

Lallemand’s collaboration with the INRA in Montpellier and other institutes throughout the world confirmed the critical role of yeast micronutrients, but more importantly, it identified the most effective way to ensure that these micronutrients benefit the selected yeast.

The result of this research was the development of GO-FERM®, a natural yeast nutrient to avoid sluggish and stuck fermentations. GO-FERM® is specific inactive yeast produced through a unique yeast biomass process fine-tuned to obtain high levels of certain essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids required for healthy yeast fermentations.

The GO-FERM® approach is to provide bioavailable micronutrients in the non-stressful environment of the yeast rehydration water instead of the traditional method of adding micronutrients to the must. During rehydration, the yeast acts like a sponge, soaking up GO-FERM®’s bioavailable nutrients. This direct contact between GO-FERM® and the yeast in the absence of the must matrix avoids chelation of key minerals by inorganic anions, organic acids, polyphenols and polysaccharides present in the must. It also prevents essential vitamins from being rapidly taken up by the competitive wild microflora or inactivated by SO2. By making key minerals and vitamins available to the selected yeast at the critical beginning of its stressful task, the yeast’s viability increases and fermentations finish stronger.

The use of GO-FERM® results in significantly better overall health of yeast cells through-out the fermentation, affecting fermentation kinetics and resulting in a cleaner aromatic profile.

So I use dried yeast almost every time I brew. I really like the products from Fermentis, Safale S05 in particular.

I purchased the book "Yeast" by Chris White and I forget the other contributor, but anyway in the book he mentions trying a product called Go Ferm from Lallemand. This is a yeast nutrient designed to be added to the rehydration water for dried yeast. I always rehydrate my yeast. This product is supposed to supply critical nutrients to the yeast during the rehydration phase and improve fermentation, attenuation, and beer flavor.

My first use of this product was with a Lager and it ended up with MAJOR diacetyl. Primary ferment was 10 days at 52 and I raised it to 56 on day 11, 58 on day 12. Fermentation really took off and then the beer cleared within about a week of that. I made the mistake of not taking a gravity reading or tasting it until I racked it at 18 days to keg. After a few days at 6 psi I took a taste test and was overwhelmed with slick butter. I let it age for 6 weeks at low pressure, occasionally venting it and letting it sit for days then, tasting it regularly and it improved gradually but was eventually dumped after 6 weeks.

Shortly thereafter I used it with S05 but I used less this time. Rather than adding a tablespoon, I added a half teaspoon.
Result was a slow take-off ( slower than I'm used to seeing ) sluggish ferment at 65 degrees but eventually it completed at 14 days primary. I racked to keg and again noticed diacetyl. Not nearly as strong but it's there. I can drink the beer, but it's quite noticeable. I've NEVER had diacetyl with S05 and I've brewed dozens of batches with it.

Next batch was again with S05 but I didn't add any Go-Ferm to the rehydration water. No diacetyl in the beer. It tastes great and is on tap now.

Last weekend I brewed a Lager once again using Saflager W34/70 and this time I skipped the Go Ferm. I am really looking forward to the results but don't have anything to report yet. I can say at day three it's much more active than the previous batch which used the Go-Ferm in rehydration water but without any gravity readings to compare, I can only provide subjective data.

So does anyone else here have experience with this product and beer yeasts? I understand this is generally used for Meads and Wines, not beer yeast. I emailed Fermentis to ask about any nutrient they may already be adding to their dried yeast and what their thoughts are on Go Ferm, but I've not received a reply.

I might just start adding this to the boil instead and use it up as a kettle nutrient. It's that, or compost it I guess.


Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 09:04:58 am »
OK so I see lots of reads and no replies.
Apparently not a lot of wine brewers here who have tried using this product with beer yeast.

I'll leave it at this. I'm not putting this stuff in my starters or anywhere else. I'm going to shelf it for now and give it to somebody who brews wine.

Still working on finishing my corny full of buttery APA.

Cheers everybody

Offline a10t2

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 09:07:27 am »
My first use of this product was with a Lager and it ended up with MAJOR diacetyl.

What was the pitching rate? That would be the first thing I'd check after tasting diacetyl.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 09:08:41 am »
I've been using Go Ferm without issue. I don't use lager yeasts though. I don't use US-05 either. So, I dunno?
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Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 09:10:30 am »
Excellent point. I don't feel I under pitched.
22 grams Fermentis Saflager W34/70 into 5 gallons of 1.055 wort.
It was properly re-hydrated following the instructions in a PDF off their site.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 10:41:45 am »
How old were the packs of yeast?  I haven't used that yeast at all.

I used go-ferm with US05 a few months back and didn't notice any diacetyl.  But I may have a higher than normal threshold for diacetyl or something else funny is going on.  People will give me a beer with a lot of "diacetyl" and I don't get it.  But when you dose a beer with the actual compound I can taste it just fine.  Maybe there is something else that smells/tastes like diacetyl that people mistake for it that I don't perceive the same way.
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Offline TrippleRippleBrewer

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Re: Lalleman Go Ferm
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 12:10:47 pm »
Well that's interesting to hear. At least I have something go by that tells me the issue isn't necessarily the GoFerm nutrient. The yeast wasn't old but the ferment probably wasn't ideal. I did not let run long enough or take gravity readings before bumping the temp for a daicetyl rest, and I may in fact have caused it myself by doing so. I might have also stressed the yeast during rehydration and left them in the flask too long. I spent a significant amount of time trying to slowly drop the temp of the yeast down to within 5 degrees of the wort and this took about 30 minutes or so.

Perhaps I shouldn't write it off as the nutrient. At the same time if I don't need it, I'm not going to add it. I'll save it for something where it's appropriate.

Not only that, I'm going to try brewing with White Labs and making starters for awhile anyway.

I want to try brewing a few APA, IPA, and perhaps Porter using WLP028.
Gotta get off the S05 train for awhile.

Thanks guys!