Author Topic: Mr malty  (Read 1469 times)

Offline jimrod

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Mr malty
« on: February 21, 2012, 09:20:13 AM »
Am I using this calculator correctly?

Mr. Malty calls for a 4 quart starter with 7 vials of White Labs liquid yeast. The batch size is 12 gal. of lager using a stir plate for an OG of 1.056.

Does this sound like a lot of yeast?
That is a huge starter?
That is about $45 wort of yeast.

If you wanted to use only 3 vials of liquid yeast Mr. Malty calls for 3 gallons of starter. WOW! That is 25% of the entire batch.

Who has a starter flask this big?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:21:58 AM by jimrod »
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 09:43:43 AM »
Does this sound like a lot of yeast?
That is a huge starter?
That is about $45 wort of yeast.

If you wanted to use only 3 vials of liquid yeast Mr. Malty calls for 3 gallons of starter. WOW! That is 25% of the entire batch.

Who has a starter flask this big?

Lager starters are huge.
 
You could do a two step - by my estimate pitch two vials into a 3 liter starter. This will get you about 7 vials worth. Cold crash, decant, and add the yeast to a 4 liter starter. Cold crash and decant again. You don't want all that spent starter in your beer.
 
If you buy an 8 liter flask you must sleep with it next to you.
 
 
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Offline jmcamerlengo

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 09:50:08 AM »
Whats your anticipated OG?

Also do you have a stir plate and can you atleast shake intermittently?
Jason
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 09:53:19 AM »
Whats your anticipated OG?

Also do you have a stir plate and can you atleast shake intermittently?

The batch size is 12 gal. of lager using a stir plate for an OG of 1.056.
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Offline jimrod

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:56:08 AM »
mtnrockhopper.....Not only is the starter huge but a 8 liter flask is huge as well. The estimated OG is 1.056 with a stir plate. I just got the stir plate but have not used it yet.

Do you have to keep the temperature at 50 for starters also or do you ferment and decant at room temperature?

And do you use an air lock?

Why do you have to sleep with it?
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
8 liter flask was tounge in cheek. I've only seen 4 liter, but I'm sure 8 liter exists. If I had one, I'd probably sleep with it under my pillow.
 
You could use a gallon glass jug or 2G carboy instead.
 
Truthfully, I've never done a lager starter, so I don't know about temperature.
 
An airlock with a stirplate would be counterproductive since you are trying to get oxygen in. Foil is fine.
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Offline jmcamerlengo

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 10:25:12 AM »
Ok I put in mr malty.

Heres what I get

5 packs- 3.18 L starter
4 packs-4.26 L starter
3 packs-6.22L starter
2 packs-10.58L starter

maybe you set your viability of your yeast wrong and its accounting for lost viability?

You can also do a step starter if you only want to buy one or 2 packs of yeast.

You need about 937 billion cells of yeast.
Jason
-Head Brewer, Brewtus Brewers in the Shenango Valley. Hopefully opening a brewpub/nano brewery in the next couple years.

Offline richardt

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 10:38:17 AM »
Agree with using smaller steps.  For example, pitch 1 vial into a 1 liter 1.040 starter batch, let it do its thing (stirplate helps a lot), chill x several days, decant and pour into another 2 liter 1.040 starter batch, etc.  You're interested in the number of quality doublings of your viable yeast (to get the yeast cell counts up) as well as yeast cell vitality (how healthy they are, i.e., are they "rev'd up and ready to go?").  A starter really helps get the fermentation going quickly.  There are calculators out there to help figure out what volume you need.

Frankly, I find the Mr. Malty website confusing and unhelpful. 
Furthermore, most of us homebrewers don't have hemocytometers to do yeast cell counts.
At the end of the day, I do one vial per 1 liter starter for ales (5 gallon batch) and step starters 1 vial per 1 liter starter, then step up to 2 liter starter for lagers (5 gallon batch).  It seems to work.

Offline nateo

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 10:55:01 AM »
You're interested in the number of quality doublings of your viable yeast (to get the yeast cell counts up) as well as yeast cell vitality (how healthy they are, i.e., are they "rev'd up and ready to go?"). 

Frankly, I find the Mr. Malty website confusing and unhelpful. 

I agree about vitality, which is often overlooked in peoples' yeast calculations. The focus of the starter should be vitality, with raw numbers of yeast being secondary. If you just wanted maximum yield, everyone would just make 20L "starters." 

I think the MrMalty tool is more helpful than nothing, but since most people don't have the tools to measure their actual results, it seems kind of like adjusting mash pH using a spreadsheet without a pH meter. Even a really good spreadsheet like Bru'n water won't tell you what your mash pH actually is. It may get you "close enough" almost all of the time, but it's still a guess.

I've read that the commercial pitching rate for ales is usually given as 1m/ml/*P. Fix, White and Zainasheff recommend 0.75m/ml/*P for ales and 1.5m/ml/*P for lagers. White and Zainasheff recommend adapting the pitch rate based on beer style and recipe. They say you can use up to a 50% lower pitching rate when using fresh lab-grown yeast. They also say when working with yeast that was sitting on a store shelf you may need to increase the pitching rate.

Mr. Malty just gives you a 0.75m factor for ales and 1.5m for lagers (and I think 1m for 'hybrid'?). So the MrMalty calculator seems like a one-size-fits-all approach to a fairly complicated problem.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 11:12:07 AM by nateo »
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 10:59:04 AM »
brew a small batch of beer then start your lager on the yeast cake
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Offline richardt

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 11:04:24 AM »
Sometimes you can use a 20 L (5 gallon) starter--it's called re-using the yeast cake from the previous batch you brewed. ;) 

I just saved myself the aggravation of cleaning out one of my fermentors by pitching a small beer (strong scotch ale second runnings) onto a belgian wheat yeast cake.  I wasn't going to let all that leftover malty goodness go to waste by dumping the grains, so I partigyled.  Not my first choice of yeast (WY3942), but it was what I had just brewed.  Going to call it a Scottish Wit.  Well...I dunno; there's no wheat in the grain bill, so it might have to be called a Scottish Witless.  Have I created a new beer style?

Online morticaixavier

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 11:07:33 AM »
Sometimes you can use a 20 L (5 gallon) starter--it's called re-using the yeast cake from the previous batch you brewed. ;) 

I just saved myself the aggravation of cleaning out one of my fermentors by pitching a small beer (strong scotch ale second runnings) onto a belgian wheat yeast cake.  I wasn't going to let all that leftover malty goodness go to waste by dumping the grains, so I partigyled.  Not my first choice of yeast (WY3942), but it was what I had just brewed.  Going to call it a Scottish Wit.  Well...I dunno; there's no wheat in the grain bill, so it might have to be called a Scottish Witless.  Have I created a new beer style?

pretty sure the wit refers to color. but you could call it billy collins. (a scottish wit)

**EDIT to correct my miserable cultural reference**

Rather than Billy Collins (an American wit) you can call it Billy Connolly (a scottish wit)  :o
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 12:12:51 PM by morticaixavier »
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Offline richardt

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 03:01:20 PM »
Correct, Witte or Wit refers to the whitish color of suspended proteins and yeast in a wheat beer..

Apparently, the Belgians do make scotch ales, e.g., Gordon's, Scotch de Silly and Achouffe McChouffe.

I'll have to research that more. 


Offline hoser

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 03:12:18 PM »
I believe in "Brew Like a Monk," Stan Hieronymus states that the house Duvel yeast came from Scotland, originally if memory serves...

Offline richardt

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Re: Mr malty
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 04:58:45 PM »
Well... I had a feeling it wasn't original.  Thanks for reminding me--I had read that before and forgot.
Belgian wheat yeast that may have originally come from Scotland--and I dumped my second runnings of my Strong Scotch Ale into it.  Seems poetic in a way.
I do wonder if it'll taste clean like a Scottish 70/- or more Belgian-y (phenols) if fermented at 60F.
Regardless--it used a 20L "yeast starter."  Now, back on topic (Mr. Malty).