Author Topic: NHC Entries closed....  (Read 18469 times)

Offline marty

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »
sorry Michael I couldn't disagree more

I read a lot of homebrewing forums, I saw threads everywhere about "Wow the NHC is almost full!", I didn't see a single thread about how bad it is that things are filling up ... until they finally filled and it's "WE NEED TO CHANGE the RULES"

same as last year, and the year before and the year.. etc... well except now no one can blame the bogeymen Gordon or Jamil

Registration opened on time (ok, it opened a day or 2 late!) it wasn't a secret that this was happening. An additional region was created.

If someone didn't get in, they either didn't take it serious enough, or have something going on far more serious than a homebrew comp to worry about. And if someone reading this did have a more serious issue going on, like being hospitalized or their flight home from Bagram was delayed then please let the AHA know and I'd bet they'd find some spots for someone that couldn't control their circumstances

Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2012, 04:20:53 PM »
simple question marty:

was there room for everyone to enter?  Being full in 2.5 days says there wasn't.

(no, no, no, this is not a criticism of Janis at all!  )
 
Hi everyone,

The NHC online registration that was supposed to open Tuesday, February 28, will be available at 10 a.m. Mountain Time on Friday March 2, 2012 instead.  I apologize for the delay, and I appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.

The online registration will be available from 10 a.m. MT, March 2 through 6 p.m. MT March 28, 2012.  There is an additional competition added this year, so there should be room for everyone to enter.  Each of the 10 U.S. competitions has a maximum limit of 750 entries.  Once the entry limit has been reached in a competition, the competition will be closed to any further entries.  See the top story on the AHA home page for tips to entering online, and look in the 2012 NHC Rules & Regulations for information about the competition.

Good luck in the competition!

Cheers,
Janis

Offline marty

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2012, 04:26:56 PM »
simple question marty:

was there room for everyone to enter?  Being full in 2.5 days says there wasn't.

(no, no, no, this is not a criticism of Janis at all!  )
 
Hi everyone,

The NHC online registration that was supposed to open Tuesday, February 28, will be available at 10 a.m. Mountain Time on Friday March 2, 2012 instead.  I apologize for the delay, and I appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.

The online registration will be available from 10 a.m. MT, March 2 through 6 p.m. MT March 28, 2012.  There is an additional competition added this year, so there should be room for everyone to enter.  Each of the 10 U.S. competitions has a maximum limit of 750 entries.  Once the entry limit has been reached in a competition, the competition will be closed to any further entries.  See the top story on the AHA home page for tips to entering online, and look in the 2012 NHC Rules & Regulations for information about the competition.

Good luck in the competition!

Cheers,
Janis

There was room for everyone whom it was important enough to spend a few minutes over the course of three days to enter

Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2012, 04:40:06 PM »
cool, we'll agree to disagree on this one.

have a great evening--
--Michael

Offline punatic

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2012, 04:41:03 PM »
Good grief... So contentious.

An idea that might help spread things out a bit:

Have the online registration site only accept a portion of the total registrations available per day.  Once the total for the day has been reached registration closes until the next scheduled registration day.  Spread the registration days over a few weeks so that everyone has a chance.  Put a calendar of registration days and times up on the registration site so there is no doubt when to register.

I was reading Keith's thread about tornados in Alabama and it occured to me that some people may have been a bit preoccupied with other things when the registration window opened (and closed).
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Offline weithman5

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2012, 05:11:31 PM »
I've judged at the NHC First Round a couple times and found there to be quite a mix of good beers and problematic beers.  Definitively folks apply the "shotgun entry method" instead of sending their best forward.  Or is it, Enter Early, Enter Often? ;)

My opinion is the judging is often not the best larger competitions due to the number of entries, workload per judge, time constraints, etc.  Entering beer in the NHC to get feedback is not the best idea; especially at $10 an entry to boot.

~Adam

i submitted one beer.  and it is not because it is one of my best but because it was different and i want to know what other people think.  worth the 10 bucks for me. 
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Offline weithman5

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2012, 05:17:00 PM »
Good grief... So contentious.

An idea that might help spread things out a bit:

Have the online registration site only accept a portion of the total

similar. how about limit it to four entries (or such) per brewer per day.  if it is important enough to get all 18 (good grief) entries in then it is important enough to get on your computer 5 days
Don AHA member

Offline zen_brew

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2012, 05:45:42 PM »
 An interesting discussion, and some interesting solutions posted. I think a limit of 4 entries is way too low. However a limit of say 10 or 12 may be more reasonable. We have competitions in WA putting 12 beer limits in this year. This would at least allow a few more people in. The only problem is any upcoming brewer with the goal of beating the point totals of Jamil or Gordon some day would find that task near impossible.

 I sort of like the idea of having a pre-qualifier like the MCAB does. I'm not sure I would say 1st place only however. Maybe anyone who ribboned a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in an AHA sanctioned competition gets an entry for each one. This would require some thought as the NHC registration is late Feb/ early March. You would have to make the window to place in an AHA conference back at least 6 or 12 months.

 I'm sure the AHA is painfully aware that the conference is not coming close to capturing the amount of attendees who wish to attend and compete in it. The problem there is simply how many regions of the US are capable of hosting the conference and supplying a large enough support pool of judges and events for conference attendees. Then how may regions can host the qualifier competition with 750 or more entries. We already saw last year that some regions were strapped and sluggish in their processing of the entries and results.

 There are some smart people on the governing board working through these issues, and I'm sure we'll see modifications in the future as they become feasible.

Cheers
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:47:46 PM by zen_brew »
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Offline joeysmokedporter

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2012, 06:31:49 PM »
Somehow I think this is a good problem to have. Every year it seems the competition has more and more entries and/or fills up faster. It means that brewing is alive, well, vibrant, and growing.

That said it is still a problem. More options to consider:

- raise price (even more) to limit demand (and maybe limit shotgunning)
- Move from fewer (9-10) large centers to many more (25? 35? more?) smaller centers to reduce logistical constraints and allow more judges and clubs to get involved - obviously math needs to work so total entries can increase
- require AHA membership for entry - if nothing else, perhaps more membership dues can subsidize paying judges
- if you do go to a "prequalification" type event I like the idea of placing in a local competition to qualify for NHC, rather than placing first--makes the competition somewhat more exclusive but also limits lower-quality shotgun entries
- develop a capping system that takes into account the history of a brewer's performance in NHC - start at a cap of 3 entries for brewers who have never made it past round 1; bump up to 6 if brewer has made it past round 1 but not placed; unlimited if you have placed (or some variant). Probably would require some type of database system to manage that could possibly be subsidized by higher fees and requiring AHA membership. Or cap entries for non-members first, then graduate it up for members based on their history.

R. Lorber
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Offline tjleitch

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2012, 06:33:10 PM »
Apologies for being trivial, but there already is a maximum limit of entries per brewer - 80 in the beer category (or however many BJCP substyles there are), and probably a similar limit in Mead and Cider. So we shouldn't be arguing about whether a limit is acceptable, but rather what the acceptable limit should be. And I think it should be 80.

Then again, I got all 9 of my entries in before it filled up, and I'd probably feel different if I hadn't.

Also, I'm probably lucky in that I live in Bermuda - I have no "regional" entry center, and could just as easily have picked any of them (DHL, if you're reading this, I promise it's soda I'm shipping).

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 06:54:31 PM »
- develop a capping system that takes into account the history of a brewer's performance in NHC - start at a cap of 3 entries for brewers who have never made it past round 1; bump up to 6 if brewer has made it past round 1 but not placed; unlimited if you have placed (or some variant). Probably would require some type of database system to manage that could possibly be subsidized by higher fees and requiring AHA membership. Or cap entries for non-members first, then graduate it up for members based on their history.

Well that would be good for me, but how about the current "homebrewer of the week" Dave Motter if rule this was in place last year?  He did pretty well for a first time entrant.

This from the last question in the series.

I entered my first NHC in 2011 and was humbled with 2 medals and was part of a 3 way tie for Ninkasi (losing due to first round points).
 
I submitted beers into 10 categories and advanced 4 to the final round, taking Gold with my American Amber Ale and Silver with my English Mild Ale.  I made it to the semi-finals in the Samuel Adams longshot competition with my Dopplebock.  It was pretty cool getting feedback from Jim Koch, although a free trip to GABF and having it brewed by SA would have been better.
 
 
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Offline mkultra69

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2012, 07:16:24 PM »
Well one thing that I think would help a bit is only count an entry that has been paid for. I has come to my attention that there is quite a lot of slots floating in limbo out there. In fact i managed to round up 7 today from a region that sold out the first day :-\ 

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2012, 09:52:46 PM »
We have discussed some options in the past for how to address this, and we will again in the future.  We really didn't anticipate the competition would sell out this fast - it took much longer last year and we increased capacity by ~10%.  We'll look into any number of options.  Things we have discussed that are coming up here:

1. Pre-qualifying is too exclusionary in my opinion, and I would not support that.
2. Having many smaller first round sites would only increase the number of final round entries, so judging at the final round would take more than 1 day like it used to in the bad old days.
3.  Adding more regions might be a good option, even though it increases the number of entries in the 2nd round it wouldn't as much as 25 regions judging 400 beers.  This still depends on judge turnout for the 2nd round though, and finding enough judging centers that can definitely handle 750 beers.
4.  Raising the price would curb entries somewhat, and might be something we do.

Keep the ideas coming though, we are open to new ideas.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline dbeechum

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2012, 01:08:33 AM »
I've suggested in the past that we don't necessarily increase the number of first round regions (for the reasons Tom mention), but instead that we increase the number of satellite regions from the first round.

In LA we used to take a set of classes up from the San Diego regional site and utilize the local judging population. We haven't done it in a few years, because it was a fair amount of work and the guys in SD stepped up and covered the load.

We'd have to have a better solution for moving the classes around, but it's a thought.
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: NHC Entries closed....
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2012, 06:06:59 AM »
Also, I'm probably lucky in that I live in Bermuda - I have no "regional" entry center, and could just as easily have picked any of them (DHL, if you're reading this, I promise it's soda I'm shipping).

Just so you know, anyone can pick any regional center...you just have to send all of them to only one.  I was contemplating a new region if my region sent to Sarasota this year, but luckily they went back to Philly.
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