Author Topic: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder  (Read 701 times)

Offline NorthernIke

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Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« on: January 29, 2010, 10:08:21 AM »
I need help!

I've got to bang out a couple of brew sessions next weekend.  I'm planning on making a Saison and a Dortmunder Export.

I love to brew as much as anyone, but I'm looking to get some economies of scale here.  I'd like mash both beers at once, then make additions in the boil to nail in the style.

I'd like some input on the following recipes and if this is practicable.  Please advise your thoughts:

Dortmunder grain bill as-is:

• 70% Pils
• 30% Munich

Saison grain bill as-is:

• 59% Pils
• 18% Wheat
• 9% Munich
• 14% Sugar (in boil)

Proposed Double Batch Grain Bill:

• 60% Pils
• 15% Wheat
• 15% Munich

I'm going to be brewing with relatively hard water, as I feel that is appropriate for both styles.  I'm also going for a very dry finish with each beer, so I think the mashing schedules are a good fit.

I will switch up the hopping schedule and other kettle additions per each brew.

Do you think this is okay?  Any suggestions




Offline blatz

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Re: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 11:24:54 AM »
IMO, wheat has no place in a dortmunder. 

why not just make the dortmunder grist for both, mash some wheat on the side in a separate vessel and combine the wheat runnings and sugar in the saison kettle?

The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline denny

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Re: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 12:00:51 PM »
+1
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline NorthernIke

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Re: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 12:09:45 PM »
So are you guys saying to make the grist for both beers 70/30 of pils/munich?  Wouldn't that be too dark for a Saison?

Do you think I'd be better off with 85/15 of pils/munich?  I can certainly do a mini-mash of the wheat malt...good idea there!

Also, any tips on brewing like this?  Should I hold all of the first runnings in a big pot, then add to the sparge water until I reach the target gravities for each beer?

Offline blatz

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Re: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 12:29:00 PM »
The SRM range for Saison is 5-14 - there ain't no way you're getting anywhere near 14 with 70/30 pils/munich.

and besides, AFAIK, a saison is in the same color range as the dort, so if its good for one, its good for both. - dorty shouldn't really be much higher than 6 - should have a nice rich gold color like this: - (pic kinda sux since it was with my old camera).

as far as how to do it - I was under the assumption that you were shooting for mid/high 50s on both, which would mean just an even split of the whole deal (first and sparge runnings).  if not, you'll have to do a little math and figure what percent of first runnings and what percent of sparge you'll need in each kettle to hit your preboil gravities.  if you don't have one, this is where a refractometer would be really, really helpful.

however, now that I think about it, you're adding sugar and the wheat runnings, so if you target 1.056, you'll have no problem getting well into the high 60s on the saison if you just evenly split it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 12:31:27 PM by blatz »
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline NorthernIke

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Re: Double Batch: Saison and Dortmunder
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 04:10:51 PM »
Awesome Blatz. Thanks man! This seems to be coming together nicely...

*with evil grin