Author Topic: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?  (Read 2673 times)

Offline udubdawg

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2012, 08:15:54 AM »
I suspect a significant part of the error is batch size.  for instance, did he account for the volume of LME or add 4 gallons of water to it?  was the finishing volume exactly 4 gallons?  Or is that what is in the fermenter and more was left in the pot?  I think his expectation of 1.045 is clearly off, but without knowing the exact numbers I can't tell if his measurement of 1.030 is off.

also, the difference between 60F and 68F should account for about .001 on his hydrometer.

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Offline denny

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2012, 08:42:52 AM »
I'm willing to bet it's stratification, as Keith mentioned.
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Offline diybrewing

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2012, 08:49:11 AM »
I can guarantee it is stratification. Whenever I hear someone putting ice into beer to cool it down it makes me cringe. 
FYI CaraPils does not need to be mashed at all. Carapils is lightest of the crystal malts which makes it already converted technically. Also their is no difference in mashing and steeping. Keeping grains at a certain temperature with water is mashing whether you call it a steep or a mini mash. the only difference is whether you sparge or do not sparge. That has nothing to do with conversion of starches or not. The flaked oats are their to add body so no need to convert since you want the starch their. The technique is fine. That is why it went past the editors because it is correct.
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Offline denny

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »
AFAIAC, you NEVER want unconverted starch in your beer.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2012, 08:53:22 AM »
AFAIAC, you NEVER want unconverted starch in your beer.

I tend to agree, and I have to respectfully disagree with his statement re: CaraPils as well.

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Offline spangltk

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2012, 09:20:52 AM »
I created a Hopville recipe with it, http://hopville.com/recipe/1239051/witbier-recipes/zymurgys-blunder, turns out 1.035 is what I should have expected with that grain bill. So .005 would be explained by poor steeping practice. My oats clumped together and I didn't do enough to break it up. After reading up on Carapils I don't expect it to convert any of the starches anyways.

As far as my readings, I confirmed the accuracy of my hydrometer before I started brewing.

Given all of the starch in the beer I'll probably to dump it. Perhaps I can cold crash and collect the yeast. Then I just need to re-buy the grains and I can do a round two.

Offline a10t2

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2012, 10:09:55 AM »
Whenever I hear someone putting ice into beer to cool it down it makes me cringe.

Why is that? If he doesn't have a chiller it's the best option.
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Offline denny

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2012, 10:11:28 AM »
Whenever I hear someone putting ice into beer to cool it down it makes me cringe.

Why is that? If he doesn't have a chiller it's the best option.

The idea behind that is that ice isn't clean, whether from your freezer or a store.  I tend it believe that given my freezer conditions and reports I've seen on commercial ice.  OTOH, if you can assure the sanitation of the ice, it's a great idea.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 10:15:10 AM »
I created a Hopville recipe with it, http://hopville.com/recipe/1239051/witbier-recipes/zymurgys-blunder, turns out 1.035 is what I should have expected with that grain bill. So .005 would be explained by poor steeping practice. My oats clumped together and I didn't do enough to break it up. After reading up on Carapils I don't expect it to convert any of the starches anyways.

As far as my readings, I confirmed the accuracy of my hydrometer before I started brewing.

Given all of the starch in the beer I'll probably to dump it. Perhaps I can cold crash and collect the yeast. Then I just need to re-buy the grains and I can do a round two.
Whenever I hear someone putting ice into beer to cool it down it makes me cringe.

Why is that? If he doesn't have a chiller it's the best option.

The idea behind that is that ice isn't clean, whether from your freezer or a store.  I tend it believe that given my freezer conditions and reports I've seen on commercial ice.  OTOH, if you can assure the sanitation of the ice, it's a great idea.

ice that you buy at the store has been sanitized via UV light. it's pretty safe, I used to do that alot before I had a chiller when I was doing extract. store bought ice should be perfectly safe.
don't dump it! at least taste it first. worst case scenerio is it gets infected but much more likely it will just be really clowdy which, for a wheat beer is not a big deal.

I can guarantee it is stratification. Whenever I hear someone putting ice into beer to cool it down it makes me cringe. 
FYI CaraPils does not need to be mashed at all. Carapils is lightest of the crystal malts which makes it already converted technically. Also their is no difference in mashing and steeping. Keeping grains at a certain temperature with water is mashing whether you call it a steep or a mini mash. the only difference is whether you sparge or do not sparge. That has nothing to do with conversion of starches or not. The flaked oats are their to add body so no need to convert since you want the starch their. The technique is fine. That is why it went past the editors because it is correct.

Mashind v. steeping is more than just a temp/time issue, it is also an enzyme issue. carapils is goign to have little or no enzymes and flaked oats will have none so no starch will convert, had there been an additional .5lb of two row or something in there then that would be a different story, it would be mashing. as is no conversion is possible so it is steeping.
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Offline denny

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2012, 10:18:20 AM »
I hope you're right about the ice.  Although it's been maybe 10 years, the last study I read cast serious doubt on the food safety of commercial ice.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2012, 10:20:52 AM »
I hope you're right about the ice.  Although it's been maybe 10 years, the last study I read cast serious doubt on the food safety of commercial ice.

I am just going by what Alton Brown told me. He can't be wrong right?

and on the Never unconverted starch comment Denny, there is lambic, but that might qualify as the exception that proves the rule. course, then there is wit, and weizen oh heck.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2012, 10:21:12 AM »
The idea behind that is that ice isn't clean, whether from your freezer or a store.  I tend it believe that given my freezer conditions and reports I've seen on commercial ice.  OTOH, if you can assure the sanitation of the ice, it's a great idea.

Granted, but that's like saying that it isn't a good idea to use plastic tubing, because it isn't unless you've sanitized it. It's just a given whenever you talk about brewing.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2012, 10:25:54 AM »
Also their is no difference in mashing and steeping. Keeping grains at a certain temperature with water is mashing whether you call it a steep or a mini mash. the only difference is whether you sparge or do not sparge.

That is incorrect.  Mashing adds requirements beyond those of just steeping.  A mash needs enzymes (usually from a base grain) and also needs a controlled water/grist ratio so that the grains can get the pH of the mini-mash into the proper range.  Steeping instructions usually just tell you to steep the pound or so of grains in the full volume of whatever amount of water you're boiling.  That's not a mash.
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Offline denny

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2012, 11:07:27 AM »
then there is wit, and weizen oh heck.

Neither of which contain unconverted starch AFAIK.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Really bad O.G. from specialty grains - any chance of a redo?
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2012, 11:11:50 AM »
then there is wit, and weizen oh heck.

Neither of which contain unconverted starch AFAIK.

No? isn't that where the starch haze comes from? I could well be wrong, you certainly have more experience than I (not a joke about how god aweful old you are denny I promise (although that might have been ;D))
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