[Titanium Brewing]

"If god wanted us to filter our beer, he wouldn't have given us livers." - Bell's Brewing

[dannyw]

I make 10 gallon batches, so occasionally filter one keg and not the other. When I've done triangle tests in opaque cups with those beers my tasters consistently pick the filtered beer over the unfiltered one.

[malzig]

I make 10 gallon batches, so occasionally filter one keg and not the other. When I've done triangle tests in opaque cups with those beers my tasters consistently pick the filtered beer over the unfiltered one.

Are your unfiltered beers clear?  If you are having them compare beer with starch or yeast in them to a filtered beer, it wouldn't surprise me if they preferred the filtered beer. 

If both beers were clear, I'd expect some styles to suffer reduced flavor from the filtering process.  Is it possible your tasters just prefer a milder, less flavorful beer?

[majorvices]

No need to filter, just use finings and cold crash. Biofine clear A3 is what I use and it works like a charm. The beer comes out crystal clear after only a few days. I do agree that in some beers yeast can "muddy" the flavor. OTOH for my IPA I do not use any finings because finings and or filter strips away too much hop flavor.

I make 10 gallon batches, so occasionally filter one keg and not the other. When I've done triangle tests in opaque cups with those beers my tasters consistently pick the filtered beer over the unfiltered one.

No offense, but I am highly skeptical of this as a blanket statement.

[weithman5]

[
If both beers were clear, I'd expect some styles to suffer reduced flavor from the filtering process.  Is it possible your tasters just prefer a milder, less flavorful beer?

do you equate milder with less flavorful as a blanket statement?

[malzig]

[
If both beers were clear, I'd expect some styles to suffer reduced flavor from the filtering process.  Is it possible your tasters just prefer a milder, less flavorful beer?

do you equate milder with less flavorful as a blanket statement?

Not really, but a lot of beer drinkers are going to think of a complex beer as difficult.  Whereas a lot of us might appreciate complexity, a lot of them are going to prefer the beer after some of that complexity has been stripped out, making the beer easier to drink and milder, but possibly a lesser beer.

Sometimes, a beer isn't supposed to be mild, but that doesn't mean that the flavor-stripped version won't be "preferred" by some people.
 

[weithman5]

[
If both beers were clear, I'd expect some styles to suffer reduced flavor from the filtering process.  Is it possible your tasters just prefer a milder, less flavorful beer?

do you equate milder with less flavorful as a blanket statement?

Not really, but a lot of beer drinkers are going to think of a complex beer as difficult.  Whereas a lot of us might appreciate complexity, a lot of them are going to prefer the beer after some of that complexity has been stripped out, making the beer easier to drink and milder, but possibly a lesser beer.

Sometimes, a beer isn't supposed to be mild, but that doesn't mean that the flavor-stripped version won't be "preferred" by some people.
 

malzig, good description, and I like the way you expressed that.  sometimes difficult with simple one word descriptions such as mild or dark or....  thanks

[dannyw]

I make 10 gallon batches, so occasionally filter one keg and not the other. When I've done triangle tests in opaque cups with those beers my tasters consistently pick the filtered beer over the unfiltered one.

Are your unfiltered beers clear?  If you are having them compare beer with starch or yeast in them to a filtered beer, it wouldn't surprise me if they preferred the filtered beer. 

If both beers were clear, I'd expect some styles to suffer reduced flavor from the filtering process.  Is it possible your tasters just prefer a milder, less flavorful beer?

When we have done this experiment i tried to make it as legit as possible. It's not green beer; i wait 6 weeks or so to let the unfiltered one settle out. The unfiltered keg is clear, the filtered one brilliant. If I handed you a glass of each individually (not side by side) you might not even notice the difference in clarity. Side by side you can tell.

My tasters are not neophyte bud light drinkers or anything like that. They are home brewers and experienced beer drinkers with wide ranging tastes. I should dig up some notes from some of these sessions to see exactly what phrases they used.

I suppose some beers might suffer, but I take that as a recipe issue.  If I find my 10 day pale ale is flabby after filtering, the I will add more hops next time! Anyway, I find it a useful tool to have in my arsenal, especially when I come up on events for which I need lots of beer on hand in short order, and have to travel to get there.

[malzig]

When we have done this experiment i tried to make it as legit as possible.

Thanks for the clarification.  Sounds well designed.  I was going to ask some more questions on whether you ran statistics to show that the results were not due to chance, but I realize that that would probably just show that, at worst, your filtered beer was as good as your unfiltered.

I've come to believe that brilliant beer has a distinct advantage over murky beer.  Getting that last bit of subtle haze to drop often seems to brighten the flavor and reveal a richer malt flavor and cleaner hop profile.   I've found that I could achieve brilliant beer without filtration, but have no idea if my beer would be even better if filtered.

[dcbc]

Whirfloc in the boil and Knox gelatin (bloomed and heated) in the fermenter after it has been crashed to 34 degrees.  Wait 24 hours and rack to kegs.  Brilliantly clear after the first pint or so.  Cheap, easy, and fast.  I have compared wait times after adding gelatin and haven't noticed much, if any, difference between 24 hours and longer waits.  YMMV.

[majorvices]

I brew an Alt regularly and I like it to be crystal clear. OTOH I do not fine IPA and I find that when it is fined or when it is super clear it is lacking in flavor and aroma.

[weithman5]

i have been pondering the grist impact on the clarity.  i made a cap that one week after bottling (pre lager) is in a plastic bottle to check on. it is easy to see right through it.  i lagered my oatmeal rye, brewed in october and served this past weekend for 3 months.  still murky.  they  oatmeal rye was fermented with saflager 34/70  and the cap with 838 southern german yeast. 

[majorvices]

Mash pH is probably the most important factor in beer clarity. Finings and/or filtering easily takes care of the yeast in most cases.

[dllipe]

"If god wanted us to filter our beer, he wouldn't have given us livers." - Bell's Brewing

Great point!

[chezteth]

"If god wanted us to filter our beer, he wouldn't have given us livers." - Bell's Brewing

Love the quote!  I only use whirlfloc and have never had the itch to use a filter.  Just my personal preference though.