[tschmidlin]

There's a huge difference in one aspect - nothing about the Patriot's taping meant more injuries to players and therefore no future lawsuits against the NFL. Right now the NFL is facing a loaded cannon in terms of the long term health impacts on its players so it has to be super aggressive against any apparent "rah rah, injury the guy" type sentiment.

I wouldn't say nothing about it means more injuries, it's just not as straight of a line.  I guarantee if they know your defensive calls your QB is going to get hit a lot more.

[brewmichigan]

There's a huge difference in one aspect - nothing about the Patriot's taping meant more injuries to players and therefore no future lawsuits against the NFL. Right now the NFL is facing a loaded cannon in terms of the long term health impacts on its players so it has to be super aggressive against any apparent "rah rah, injury the guy" type sentiment.

I wouldn't say nothing about it means more injuries, it's just not as straight of a line.  I guarantee if they know your defensive calls your QB is going to get hit a lot more.

That's true TS, but there's a difference between the QB getting hit because the defense knows the plays and the QB getting hit because the Linebackers have a extra incentive to try and take him out of the game. What NE did was cheating but it's nothing like what the Saints were running... IMHO.

[a10t2]

This thread might as well be in a foreign language. I recognize most of the individual words, and even some of the proper nouns, but...

[tschmidlin]

That's true TS, but there's a difference between the QB getting hit because the defense knows the plays and the QB getting hit because the Linebackers have a extra incentive to try and take him out of the game. What NE did was cheating but it's nothing like what the Saints were running... IMHO.

Meh, I disagree, cheating is worse.  They are payed to hit people anyway, bonuses for hitting harder doesn't seem like a big deal to me as long as it is a clean and legal hit.  Paying them to play dirty is out of bounds.

[tschmidlin]

Winning.

Love it.

[Joe Sr.]

Paying them to play dirty is out of bounds.

Isn't that exactly what it was?

If not directly.  They were incentivized to take cheap shots/late hits and knock players out of the game.

Of course, other teams are coached to chop block and cut out linemen at the knees, so perhaps it's a very thin distinction.

[tschmidlin]

Paying them to play dirty is out of bounds.

Isn't that exactly what it was?

If not directly.  They were incentivized to take cheap shots/late hits and knock players out of the game.

Of course, other teams are coached to chop block and cut out linemen at the knees, so perhaps it's a very thin distinction.

I don't know if that is what it is or not.  I've only ever seen it characterized as paying for "big hits", and if a player is knocked out of a game, well, that happens all of the time from perfectly legal hits.  But if there is a cheap shot or a late hit the refs can see it and throw a flag.  Even if they are coaching chop blocks that can be called in the game.  If you break the rules, you get a penalty.  But how would the refs recognize the NE cheating in a game?  I'm not excusing the Saints, but to me what NE did was on a whole different scale.

[majorvices]

Tom, the difference is that if someone gets killed playing football it could have serious negative effects on the league as a whole. The NFL is trying to keep players from having broken necks and eliviate concusions as much as possible. This is just sending the message that this sort of thing wont be tolerated.

As far as Tebows to the Jets this is like Jonah to Nineveh - he's being called but I can't believe he wants to go. I really didn't need another reason to hate the Jets but there you go.

[theDarkSide]

T-T-T-Tebow and the Jets!!   

[tschmidlin]

Tom, the difference is that if someone gets killed playing football it could have serious negative effects on the league as a whole. The NFL is trying to keep players from having broken necks and eliviate concusions as much as possible. This is just sending the message that this sort of thing wont be tolerated.

I get why they're doing it and I'm all for reducing injuries.  It's the scale of the penalty that I object to, when compared to penalties in the past.

[brewmichigan]

Paying them to play dirty is out of bounds.

Isn't that exactly what it was?

If not directly.  They were incentivized to take cheap shots/late hits and knock players out of the game.

Of course, other teams are coached to chop block and cut out linemen at the knees, so perhaps it's a very thin distinction.

I don't know if that is what it is or not.  I've only ever seen it characterized as paying for "big hits", and if a player is knocked out of a game, well, that happens all of the time from perfectly legal hits.  But if there is a cheap shot or a late hit the refs can see it and throw a flag.  Even if they are coaching chop blocks that can be called in the game.  If you break the rules, you get a penalty.  But how would the refs recognize the NE cheating in a game?  I'm not excusing the Saints, but to me what NE did was on a whole different scale.

I don't know if I would call it a whole different scale. I would say different playing fields. The cheating by NE will effect the outcome of a game based on they may know when the other team lines up in a certain formation, they know what's going to happen. It gives them an unfair advantage I know, but it doesn't physically hurt the other players.

Major has a good point. Right now the NFL is dealing with some pretty big issues with the toll that playing in the NFL does to your body. In my mind, people have signed up for this and they should understand what they're getting into. But, if they don't come down hard on what the Saints were doing, they might look "soft" on the issue and to some, it might look like they condone the violent behavior of people like James Harrison.

What the Saints did does not actually give them an unfair advantage on the field like what NE did, but it endangers the lively hood of the other players on the field. The refs can throw a flag on a cheap shot that knocked out a QB but the QB is still knocked out.

[repo]

If the defense knew what play was coming would you say the chance of that qb getting knocked out  would go up, down or stay the same???

[gmac]

OH...I get it...  this is some sort of American Football thread. 

You guys with your short field and your extra downs and your tiny balls (And Apparently Your Excessive Use Of Capitals).

I thought it was a horse thing.  Still wouldn't care unless it was Bronco to Gelding...ouch.

[jeffy]

As A Thinking Individual, I Couldn't Possibly Care Less.

I'm almost ashamed to say how pleased I am to see this phrased correctly.  Too many people say they "could care less..."

Well, I could care less.

Irregardless, I don't give a R.A.
any moleasses.   

What does residual alkalinity have to do with it?

Mayhap you prefer a different rodent?

Do you have any of unusual size?

[tschmidlin]

I don't know if I would call it a whole different scale. I would say different playing fields. The cheating by NE will effect the outcome of a game based on they may know when the other team lines up in a certain formation, they know what's going to happen. It gives them an unfair advantage I know, but it doesn't physically hurt the other players.

Major has a good point. Right now the NFL is dealing with some pretty big issues with the toll that playing in the NFL does to your body. In my mind, people have signed up for this and they should understand what they're getting into. But, if they don't come down hard on what the Saints were doing, they might look "soft" on the issue and to some, it might look like they condone the violent behavior of people like James Harrison.

What the Saints did does not actually give them an unfair advantage on the field like what NE did, but it endangers the lively hood of the other players on the field. The refs can throw a flag on a cheap shot that knocked out a QB but the QB is still knocked out.

I think breaking the rules is worse than hurting other players within the rules.

Football is a violent game, and the NFL is trying to skirt a line.  On the one hand the bigger the hits the more people want to watch it, the big hits are the ones that get replayed over and over.  On the other hand there is player safety.  The players have a lot of skill and take risks, and are generously compensated for that.  I don't want to see anyone injured, but you still have to let them play the game.

To rip off Denny, if the players are worried about their livelihoods from legal hits they should take up knitting.

And Harrison gets fined for things that aren't even penalties, so I don't think anyone believes the NFL condones his style of play.  In fact, I read he's being fined $50,000 over the Saints bounty program.