Author Topic: anyone by chance  (Read 9792 times)

Offline beerocd

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2010, 10:33:30 AM »
And for making good lagers you need an even more expensive system and even more storage space.

Outside of us geeks - what percentage of the population do you think could tell ales from lagers?
Maybe you can't technically come up with a lager - but I bet you could come close enough for the general poplulation.
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline Kaiser

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2010, 11:30:30 AM »
Outside of us geeks - what percentage of the population do you think could tell ales from lagers?
Maybe you can't technically come up with a lager - but I bet you could come close enough for the general poplulation.

You are probably right. I prefer a micro brewery to brew excellent ales rather than mediocre lagers. I tend to see this with seasonal beers where a brewery that is set up for ales tried its hands on a lager and would have been better off brewing an ale instead. Small breweries and brewpubs also seem to struggle with light colored beers. Just recently I went to one where the lightest beer in the line up had an aroma dominated by sulfur and "yeastiness". The darker beers were ok. I guess they needed to come up with a light beer for the line-up.

Another problem that I see for a small brewery is that they try to push for fermentation schedules that large breweries can get away with w/o having the equipment, analytics and know-how of how to finish a lager in just 3-4 weeks. As a home brewer we have a resource that is very scarce in production brewing: time.

Kai

Offline blatz

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2010, 11:56:28 AM »
My dream of opening a brewery was never really strong and died long ago. I have a mortage and family and need a well paying fairly stable job. Too much risk trying to open a brewery. At least for me. And for making good lagers you need an even more expensive system and even more storage space.

mostly the feelings I have - though the dream has not died for me.  in all likelihood, I think the chances of making more money owning my own brewery than in what I do right now are pretty slim.  If I had started homebrewing when I was right out of college and making next to nothing but also had no liabilities, I probably would have been more inclined to scratch that itch.  but I've got a wife who's self employed, 2 mortgages to pay, and kids are on the horizon.

'course my heart breaks every now and then like this weekend when a bunch of my brewclub friends insist I should start one. 

maybe in time, fate will let me scratch that itch.

One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  ::)).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.

that said - keith's in a good spot as he's sort of in between jobs right now.  And I know he'll get it done right - I mean at least he'll make a proper starter and pitch below fermentation temps!
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline bluesman

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2010, 12:37:13 PM »
It's talent, and I mean multi faceted talent. It's passion, dedication, self belief, open mindedness, inspired, can-do and will-do attitude, focused, willing to learn, delegation are the top virtues of a successful businessman. It's a business savy individual with deep pockets and a drive that will never stop. It's location, location, location. Finding talented people to work with you is key as well. A visionary of sorts who can align all of these elements together and make it happen. It's the Vinnie Cilurzo's, the Sam Caglione's and the Jim Koch's that should be your target business models for success.

A millionaire starts with with one dollar and it's the magic after that that makes it work for him.

Making great beer is the easy part in my mind. It's all the other aspects of making a business "successful" that are the challenging parts of a viable business.

Good Luck Keith!  8)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 12:53:16 PM by bluesman »
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2010, 12:45:17 PM »
An alternative business model, that helped the likes like Jim Koch, is contract brewing. While frowned upon by many in the industry it allowed Boston Brewing Co to get a running start w/o the large upfront capital investment needed to start even a small brewery. But for a brewer it is not as exciting since you don’t get to brew your own beer. You are only designing it and find markets for it.

A lot of breweries that are now big and have their own breweries have started out that way. I can think of SA and Harpoon.

Kai

Offline beerocd

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2010, 12:48:37 PM »
I'll tell you what's gonna be hard. Charging all your friends for beer. Many old friends and the millions of new ones will be shocked that you are actually charging them for beer. I mean, you made it, so.... it's like....free...
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline babalu87

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2010, 01:10:37 PM »
One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  ::)).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.

That happened locally.

The beer is atrocious. Not ever drinkable. I bought a 6 pack and drank half a beer. Maybe it will be good in bread or  a Belgian beer/beef stew.
IPA and i has issues, one is not enough late hops.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2010, 01:16:13 PM »

One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  ::)).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.


We are in good shape for that - there are no good local breweries here yet (there is one very bad one!). There is one good distributing brewery that just opened about 100 miles away. And there are a few in Nashville, but only one that actually distributes (Yazoo brewing, meh - I don't care for them much either). When you walk into a bar and you can't get a good local IPA something is wrong. We usually drink Bells Two Hearted - I personally like my IPA better. Where I live the beer scene is just starting to hit and a lot of people from all over the country live here so people are ready and excited for a good local beer. I would almost certainly not try this if I lived in ... say Portland.  ;)

An alternative business model, that helped the likes like Jim Koch, is contract brewing. ...


I will admit without shame that we will consider it when the time comes and have discussed it several times as a viable option.

I'll tell you what's gonna be hard. Charging all your friends for beer. Many old friends and the millions of new ones will be shocked that you are actually charging them for beer. I mean, you made it, so.... it's like....free...


Bwahahahaha! I hadn't thought of that! screw 'em! As long as I get free beer I don't care! ;D
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 01:21:57 PM by majorvices »
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Offline mtbrewer

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2010, 01:24:50 PM »
One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  Roll Eyes).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.

I was a Chef for sixteen years, I saw people try to open a restaurant with zero experience. They would always fail, so I would not worry about brewers with no experience. The thing i would worry about is turning something you love to do into work. I sure hope it works out for you!!

Offline majorvices

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2010, 01:43:21 PM »
The thing i would worry about is turning something you love to do into work. I sure hope it works out for you!!

I had an office job for 17 years .... and it SUCKED! I never want to do that again, ever.
Keith Y.
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Offline mtbrewer

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2010, 01:46:45 PM »
The thing i would worry about is turning something you love to do into work. I sure hope it works out for you!!

I had an office job for 17 years .... and it SUCKED! I never want to do that again, ever.
No Doubt, that would drive me to the brink of insanity. I love to work outdoors. Sixteen years in the kitchen sucked as well. :(

Offline Kaiser

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
An alternative business model, that helped the likes like Jim Koch, is contract brewing. ...


I will admit without shame that we will consider it when the time comes and have discussed it several times as a viable option.


There should be no shame to this. It is a very attractive option if you are looking to satisfy a large market quickly rather than starting small and struggling your way up. Maureen Ogle’s book Ambitious Brew makes mention of the fact that early microbrewers faced a conundrum: to little money to brew a lot of beer and to little beer to make more money to get a larger brewery. Some avoided that through contract brewing and some of them have become very successful.

With CB you can also show potential investors (Banks) a list of accounts you supply and a revenue stream that makes them more willing to lend you more money. That means you can build a large brewery once you commit to having your own brewery. If it doesn’t work out and you don’t get established in the market you would have also failed with your own brewery.

You’ll still have a pilot system to develop beers.

Let’s face it. Being a successful brewer is more about being able to sell beer than being able to brew beer with your own hands. Otherwise many more of us would become professional brewers.

Kai

Offline roffenburger

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2010, 03:11:32 PM »
I like to think that the "masses" are slowly coming to their senses.
Travis R.

Offline NorthernIke

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  Roll Eyes).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.

I was a Chef for sixteen years, I saw people try to open a restaurant with zero experience. They would always fail, so I would not worry about brewers with no experience. The thing i would worry about is turning something you love to do into work. I sure hope it works out for you!!b

Didn't this happen with the first craft beer wave in the early 90's?  Lots of cheap used equipment for the rest of us!

Offline coypoo

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Re: anyone by chance
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2010, 04:55:04 PM »

One thing that does worry me is how many people I hear opening breweries - I met 4 guys this weekend at a party who were drawing up plans (2 of them have no brewing experience  ::)).  Just makes me curious if oversaturation could become an issue given the popularity.

This is what scares me the most about opening a brewery. I live in Denver and there are great micropubs everywhere, so it would be really really hard to get a piece of that market. People who dont really know that much about opening a brewery always say "you could be the next sierra nevada," but they dont understand that SN has been around for over 20 years now and when they first started there was hardly any craft beers available. Now, that could be a detrement b/c there wasnt that big of an audience for the product, but now in places like Denver where there is such a large audience, there are just too many different breweries offering great beer. So it is location, location, location. It sounds like Major has a good one, and there are always people who want to try new beer, and the numbers of those kind of people are increasing everyday, so I bet major is going to do just fine.

It still is fun to day dream about it though