Author Topic: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1  (Read 2106 times)

Offline gmac

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Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« on: March 29, 2012, 01:44:59 PM »
I have yeast of both saison (Wy3711 French Saison) and pilsner (WLP800) ready.  I was going to do an unspiced saison this time and I just thought...Hey, can I do a 10 gal batch and split it between these two yeast?

I'm thinking about 16 lbs of Weyerman Pils, 1 lb of light munich, 1 lb of wheat and then add 1 lb of sugar to the saison 1/2.
But, how would I work the hops? 
I was thinking 2 oz of 4% Hallertau at 60, 1 oz at 15 and then dry-hop the lager later to get the aroma.  Maybe use some saaz or something.
Not worried about being on-style for either of them, just want some nice beer for the summer.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 01:51:42 PM »
Sounds like a plan, though I'd skip the wheat, personally. No real need for it in a pils. You also might consider skipping the sugar in the saison and just pair them side by side as one beer, two different yeast and really showcase the difference the yeast makes.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 04:50:11 PM »
OK, no wheat.  I've sort of gotten into the habit of a 1/2 lb of wheat in everything.  Doubt it does much but hey, I bought a 50lb sack...

Thoughts on the hops that might be ok for both styles?

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 05:05:27 PM »
It's your beer, if you wanna add wheat go for it. Just not necessary. FWIW I went through the same "fad" (for lack of better word). I had a sack of wheat on hand and just threw some in because I wanted to use it. I can't disagree with that logic. It "may" help head retention.

As far as hops go, pils and saison both use a fairly heavily hopped recipe, so I do think it will work. I would aim for around 30 BUs for both. You could dry hop the saison with french strisselspalt to add some hop complexity.
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Offline snowtiger87

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 09:59:43 AM »
I have done just such a brew in the past. For hops I used Magnum for bittering and Czech Saaz for flavor and aroma. It worked great in both beers. Styrian Goldings would be another option.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 10:39:14 AM »
i like to throw in a bit of wheat (and i mean about an ounce per gallon) just cuz i think the head stays nicer. just my thought though.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 11:31:57 AM »
I love Styrian Goldings and Strisselspalt in a Saison for late addition.  In fact, I think the Saison is more suited to flameout / dry hops than a pilsner, which doesn't have an overwhelming hop aroma.

If you wanted to throw some hops in the whirlpool for one beer, you could drain half the kettle first if you have a counterflow or plate chiller.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 11:58:06 AM »
I love Styrian Goldings and Strisselspalt in a Saison for late addition.  In fact, I think the Saison is more suited to flameout / dry hops than a pilsner, which doesn't have an overwhelming hop aroma.

If you wanted to throw some hops in the whirlpool for one beer, you could drain half the kettle first if you have a counterflow or plate chiller.

German pils doesn't have much, but bo-pils does. Prima pils has an outstanding hop aroma - granted, it's amercian, but it's awesome.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 02:57:17 PM »
I love Styrian Goldings and Strisselspalt in a Saison for late addition.  In fact, I think the Saison is more suited to flameout / dry hops than a pilsner, which doesn't have an overwhelming hop aroma.

If you wanted to throw some hops in the whirlpool for one beer, you could drain half the kettle first if you have a counterflow or plate chiller.

German pils doesn't have much, but bo-pils does. Prima pils has an outstanding hop aroma - granted, it's amercian, but it's awesome.

There's definitely aroma (and I LOVE Prima Pils  :) ), but neither German brewers nor Pilsner Urlquell use flameout or dry hops.  And the Prima Pils recipe clone that I saw only had a 10 minute addition.  Not saying you can't dry hop, but for a traditional pils it might be too harsh.
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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 06:10:44 AM »
Yeah, I'd consider dry hopping the saison but not maybe not the pils.
Keith Y.

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Offline gmac

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 09:59:50 AM »
Thanks.  This is gonna be Sunday's job. 
I'm going with an ounce of Magnum at 60 and an ounce of Saaz at 15.  Probably won't dry hop either since I don't dry hop much normally.  But you never know.  I may add something to the Saison.  Or I may just do another 1/2 oz of Saaz at flameout for a touch of aroma.  Either way I'm sure it'll be good.  Like I said, not looking for style here, just something to have ready for summer.

Offline narvin

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 10:42:29 AM »
Sounds great.  I like the idea of using the same recipe with different yeast. A bit of flameout hops could work in both, despite "tradition".

So, do you have two fermentation chambers?  Or a really hot room and a really cold room?   :)  Actually, with French Saison, I guess you don't need to keep it all that warm to get great attenuation and flavors.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Saison and Pilsner 2 for 1
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 09:58:54 AM »
I ferment lagers in my "cold room" which is about 50 degrees right now (although it has no temp control and varies based on outdoor temps).  The saison I've always just fermented at ambient cellar temps (about 65 now) and they've attenuated beautifully with this yeast.  Someday I'll have to get a heating band and really ramp it up but I've been really happy with this yeast at regular temps.