[liquidbrewing]

So, every year for the last two years, I've brewed a big barleywine, and bottled conditioned them.  I plan on different recipes every year and have since refined my bottle conditioning procedure.  This last one, I cold crashed the primary, kegged it, then added half a pack of redydrated yeast to the keg.  Hooked up the beer gun and bottled it.  Worked great!  I nice compact layer of yeast in every bottle, with no need to refrain from pouring the entire bottle into a glass.  The previous year had a nice 1/2" of sediment.  Too much yeast I presume.

Sorry for ranting...  Both years turned out great.  I was really happy with both batches.  However, I appreciated the taste of the beers when they were relatively new in the bottle.  After having sufficient carbonation from bottle conditioning.  They got intensely sweet as they sat in the fridge.  This years has only been in the bottle for two and a half months, and is very sweet and malty to me.  When it was first carbed up, it was really good, resembling a nice IIPA.  They were both hopped quite significantly, so my question is, are there any malts that will contribute pronounced bitterness, so as the hops drop out, the resulting beer doesn't get cloyingly sweet??

I'm thinking about doing a huge RIS this year.  Will I have to worry about the same issue?

[Jimmy K]

1/2" of sediment sounds pretty excessive.
 
I don't know about malts that produce 'bitterness', but you could dry out the barleywine by mashing lower or subbing sugar for some of the malt (or malt extract). Malt sweetness tends to fade too, but more slowly than hops I find.

[morticaixavier]

might also be an oxidation issue.

for barley wines (I tend towards the English style) I use a single malt and mash low low low and long long long. boil for a long time with a goodly charge of hops right at the beginning and more at 30 minutes. The bitterness will fade, that's the style. if it's getting cloying get any crystal out of the recipe, mash lower (like 145-148) and use a more attenuative yeast. and bitter hop the beejeezus out of it.

[hopfenundmalz]

Black malts can have a bitterness.  Did you use any in a Barleywine?

Posting a recipe would help, we could see ingredients and procedures then.

[brewmichigan]

After reading the OP post, i'm wondering if a Barleywine is what he's after. He mentioned liking it fresh like it was a IIPA. Why not make it and drink it like a IIPA?

[liquidbrewing]

This was 2010's recipe:

14# - 2 row
6#  -  Maris Otter
1#  - Carapils
1# - C-120
1# - Dark Crystal
.5# - C-80
.5# -  CaraRed

Mashed in at 144 for 4 hours.
Boiled 3 1/2 hours
2 oz Warrior @ 120 mins.
4 oz Galena @  0

US-05 (x1)  +  US-04 (x1)
OG 1.121
FG 1.030
ABV 12%
Ferm. Temp.  65 degrees.
no cold crash, added one package S-33 yeast at bottling

2011's recipe:

15 #  Pilsner malt
5 #   Munich
1 #  Carapils
1#  C-80
Mashed at 150 for two hours
Two hour boil
1 oz Columbus @ 120 min
1.2 oz Citra     @ 120
1  oz  Calypso  @ 30
2.2 oz Amarillo  @ 5
Ferm. Temp 65
Yeast: US-05 (x2)
OG 1.100
FG  1.024
ABV - 9.98%
One week cold crash, racked to keg, added 1/2 package of rehydrated S-33, then bottled.  After a few weeks in the fridge, a nice compact sediment in the bottle of yeast, nothing ever made it into the bottle, sediment wise, barleywine yes!

After reading the OP post, i'm wondering if a Barleywine is what he's after. He mentioned liking it fresh like it was a IIPA. Why not make it and drink it like a IIPA?

Yes, I am after a Barleywine.  IIRC, Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot clone called for 2#'s of C-60.  A lot of crystal.  And I like that a lot.  Rogues, Old Crustacean is great, too. 

I just don't want to be drinking a super sweet (year old) barleywine, every year when I brew my new one.  Will an RIS turn sweet too?  I'm thinking about brewing an imperial stout this year.

[morticaixavier]

As the hops fade in a RIS the roasty bitterness comes out more. this can be good if you like roasty bitterness.

On the 2010 recipe, that's 4 lbs of crystal. that's alot of residual sweetness. that's like 16% of the grist. That is going to result in a very sweet beer when the hops start to drop. Not sure about big foot. I have had a 3 year old bottle and it's for sure caramely. I think to some extent you have to choose between building a big complex beer for ageing and building a big complex hoppy beer for drinking fresher.

You can slow down the ageing by keeping the beer really cold until next year maybe. like 32*

[Jimmy K]

Yeah, that is a LOT of crystal - and a lot of dark crystal too. Try replacing like 2-3 lbs with specialty grains that give a malty, but dry, character. Look for biscuit, bready descriptors.

[hopfenundmalz]

I would load the bittering charge up with more hops like Chinook, or Columbus (as you have in second recipe), and time that at 90 minutes.  After 90 minutes you are losing IBUs as the iso-AA is breaking down.  Shoot for a high calculated IBU value.  Bigfoot is 90 IBU's measured in the SN lab, and I would bet that it calculates to be more as the equations overestimate at those levels.

Bigfoot and Old Crustacian use Chinook for bittering, and both will be on the bitter side for a few years until they reach balance, then go sweet with time.  I read that the half life of iso-AA is about 5 years.  So for a barleywine with a 1.100 OG the 90 IBUs would be bitter, some where around 65 would be balanced and 45 would be sweet (5 years).   You would expect the beer to reach balance after a year and a half to 2 years. They all lose bitterness with time, and all take on oxidized flavor.  As said above keep the beers cold to slow the process.

http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/bigfoot.html

[liquidbrewing]

Yeah, I knew the first one I brewed had a lot of crystal in there.  I was kinda just using up a lot of extra malt I had on hand.

I'm still really pleased with last years, it's not too sweet, right now.

I'll definitely try to keep the grain bill simpler and hop the crap out of it!!

This year will definitely be an RIS and I love the roastiness of the dark malts.  Black patent, roasted barley, and chocolate I'll probably go with.

Thanks for all the responses. 

[bonjour]

I'd drop the carapils,

the BW you prefer is the 1.025 FFG vs. the 1.030 FG

Target that (1.025) FG or a little lower.

[alcaponejunior]

After reading the OP post, i'm wondering if a Barleywine is what he's after. He mentioned liking it fresh like it was a IIPA. Why not make it and drink it like a IIPA?

kind of like bigfoot barleywine perhaps?  I bought a couple of sixers of this year's batch of SN bigfoot and I thought it was somewhat along the lines of a IIPA.  I also thought it was downright DELICIOUS!  Great body and awesome hops flavors, not quite like any other barleywines I've had before (and I do like barleywine). 

Anybody got a clone?

Haha I just saw Hop's post about bigfoot 

[denny]

Hmmmm...what other BWs have you had that you;re comparing it to?  IMO, Bigfoot is a classic Am. style BW.  I don't find it at all like an IIPA since it has so much more body.

[jmcamerlengo]

After reading the OP post, i'm wondering if a Barleywine is what he's after. He mentioned liking it fresh like it was a IIPA. Why not make it and drink it like a IIPA?

kind of like bigfoot barleywine perhaps?  I bought a couple of sixers of this year's batch of SN bigfoot and I thought it was somewhat along the lines of a IIPA.  I also thought it was downright DELICIOUS!  Great body and awesome hops flavors, not quite like any other barleywines I've had before (and I do like barleywine). 

Anybody got a clone?

Haha I just saw Hop's post about bigfoot 

I do have a clone that I thought was pretty darn close. I will post the recipe later tonight when I get home and access to my beersmith.

[morticaixavier]

Hmmmm...what other BWs have you had that you;re comparing it to?  IMO, Bigfoot is a classic Am. style BW.  I don't find it at all like an IIPA since it has so much more body.

and a lot less flavour and aroma hops IMO. it's for sure a nice big hoppy beer when fresh, but very well built for the long haul. I know some folks only like it young but I find after a couple years it really starts to shine.