Author Topic: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard  (Read 6961 times)

Offline ultravista

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WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« on: March 30, 2012, 06:57:31 AM »
I am thinking about brewing the Arrogant Bastard clone (90% 2-row & 10% Special B) and have a few questions about the yeast choice. The near cloned Can You Brew It recipe calls for WLP007.

I have Wyeast 1968 and Wyeast 1764 (Pacman) on-hand already.

The three strains are below. Would either of the two Wyeast strains be close or close-enough to substitute for WLP0007.

WLP007
Clean, highly flocculent, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80% attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.

Alc. Tolerance: medium to high
Flocculation: medium to high
Attenuation: 70-80%
Temp. Range: 65-70°F

Wyeast 1764 Pacman
Pacman is alcohol tolerant, flocculent, attenuates well and will produce beers with little to no diacetyl. Very mild fruit complements a dry, mineral finish making this a fairly neutral strain.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation med-high
Attenuation 72-78%
Temp. Range 60-72°F (15-22°C)

Wyeast 1968 ESB
A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculant yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F (21-23° C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. Bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration.

Alcohol Tolerance: 9% ABV
Flocculation: Very High
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 64-72F, 18-22C


Offline brewmichigan

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 07:28:28 AM »
If that's all you got, I'd use the pacman. The beer won't taste anything like Arrogant Bastard if you use 1968. Make an ESB or english mild with the 1968.
Mike --- Flint, Michigan

Offline EHall

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 07:51:55 AM »
Stone recommends using either WLP002 or WLP007... they started off with a english strain which evolved into their house yeast... You'll get closer the the original taste if you use either WLP007 or 1968. You'll also need to add some C80-C120 in there too...
Phoenix, AZ

Offline ultravista

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 08:48:04 AM »
It looks like Wyeast 1098 may be a substitute for WLP007. Do you agree?

Wyeast 1098
This yeast allows malt and hop character to dominate the profile. It ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well balanced. Beers will finish clean and neutral. Ferments well down to 64°F (18°C).

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 73-75%
Temperature Range: 64-72 F, 18-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 10% ABV


Offline EHall

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 08:52:59 AM »
I'm not sure about being a sub, but it looks like it'll work too. The last time I did a Stone clone, I used WLP013 and was very pleased with the results. but I've also tried WLP001/002...
Phoenix, AZ

Offline garc_mall

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 09:16:01 AM »
It looks like Wyeast 1098 may be a substitute for WLP007. Do you agree?

Wyeast 1098
This yeast allows malt and hop character to dominate the profile. It ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well balanced. Beers will finish clean and neutral. Ferments well down to 64°F (18°C).

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 73-75%
Temperature Range: 64-72 F, 18-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 10% ABV



According to Kristen England, the BJCP Education director, 1098 and 007 are the same yeast.

Her Chart is really useful to me when I am trying to decide subs.
In a Keg: Flanders Red Ale, Rye Altbier, Cascade/Topaz Pale
Fermenting: Flanders Red, Saison

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 10:24:44 AM »
It looks like Wyeast 1098 may be a substitute for WLP007. Do you agree?

Wyeast 1098
This yeast allows malt and hop character to dominate the profile. It ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well balanced. Beers will finish clean and neutral. Ferments well down to 64°F (18°C).

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 73-75%
Temperature Range: 64-72 F, 18-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 10% ABV



According to Kristen England, the BJCP Education director, 1098 and 007 are the same yeast.

HerHIS Chart is really useful to me when I am trying to decide subs.

fixed that for you. man she is going to kick your butt if she sees that!
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Offline brewmichigan

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 11:24:04 AM »
It looks like Wyeast 1098 may be a substitute for WLP007. Do you agree?

Wyeast 1098
This yeast allows malt and hop character to dominate the profile. It ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well balanced. Beers will finish clean and neutral. Ferments well down to 64°F (18°C).

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 73-75%
Temperature Range: 64-72 F, 18-22C
Alcohol Tolerance: 10% ABV

Well that's not fair. You can't bring a new yeast into the mix after I've already replied  8)

I would go with the 1098 if you can get it otherwise I'd settle for the more attenuative yeast in pacman over 1968 even though 1968 flavor profile might be closer. I would be afraid of 1968 not being able to give you enough attenuation unless yo had a good amount of yeast and mashed in really low.
Mike --- Flint, Michigan

Offline garc_mall

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »
Speaking of attenuation, I learned on a recent brewery tour that the brewery had issues with 1968 attenuating way too much on the 10th generation of that particular pitch. If Stone started with a less-attenuative English strain, they may have ended up selecting for the more attenuative aspects, and ended up with a yeast that came from 1968, but is now more like pacman or san-diego super yeast, with its fast, attenuative style.
In a Keg: Flanders Red Ale, Rye Altbier, Cascade/Topaz Pale
Fermenting: Flanders Red, Saison

Offline ultravista

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 02:16:41 PM »
I am also planning brewing a clone of Anderson Valley Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout. It calls for a "british" yeast so Wyeast 1968 (ESB) or 1098 (British Ale) will both work.

Since 1098 is near White's WLP007 I may go with one or the other for the BFOS and Arrogant Bastard.

Trying to save a little $ by maximizing my yeast use through two brews.

Offline pyrite

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 07:09:19 PM »
WLP 007 is what I use when I brew AB.  Also, instead of special B, I use 150L, and in a taste test I can't tell the difference between mine and the OG. 
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Offline erockrph

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 05:48:12 AM »
My suggestion would be to start with the 1968 at 67-68F then let it come up to 72 or so after the first 3-4 days to try to max out its attenuation. Make sure you rouse the yeast frequently as well since this one drops so quickly. If your SG is still high after the the 1968 stops eating, then you could always hit it with the 007 to get yourself down to the attenuation range you're looking for. This way you get a bit more of that English yeast flavor from the initial ferment, but you have a backup plan to keep your FG in the range you want it.

If you don't want to use two yeasts for 1 batch then you could probably get away with replacing some of the 2-row in the original recipe with a simple sugar to dry it out and still stick with the 1968.
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Offline beer_crafter

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Re: WLP007 vs. Wyeast 1968 for Arrogant Bastard
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 02:41:01 PM »
I find the 007/1098 yeast to be closest to the Stone profile.