Author Topic: Sour finish in beers using S-05  (Read 5012 times)

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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2012, 04:18:28 PM »
I would say it has a more "dusty" character for lack of a better word. Not quite as clean, definitely not as noticeable in hoppy ales, as you say. "Mild yeast bite" is how I guess I would characterize it.

I always think of "yeast bite" as being due to autolysis. Perhaps the yeasties are dying before they flocc out, or perhaps you just need to be really aggressive about racking off the trub once you get the clarity you want.

I don't think so. And I use conicals and dump yeast and rack to brights so I'm sure that's not even close to being an issue. Anyway, I'm familiar with autolysis and that's not the flavor I would describe it as. It's a "fuzzy" taste to my palate. WLP001 is just more clean, though for aggressive American styles I don't think most folks will pick it up. I only notice it when brewing mock alts or cleaner beer styles that would normally use a lager yeast like CAP or blondes, etc.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2012, 05:56:58 PM »
I usually pitch ale yeast at 62f except S-05, I pitch it at 57f.

No problems 8)
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 06:23:42 PM »
I agree that US-05 can be pretty clean pitched super cool like that. Still not as clean as WLP001 though. And I'm not saying it is a "problem" per se, just a result.  ;)

FWIW before I switched my alt over to a German Ale yeast I used WLP001. I always kept a brick of US-05 on hand for those times that I needed to brew but didn't have a crop of yeast ready. The IPA and IIPA were just fine with the US-05, and I still don't hesitate to brew those style with that dry yeast. But the Alt was just never quite right, even pitched at 58 degrees. Just had a "roughness" to the flavor that wasn't there with WLP001. certainly wasn't "sour" though. Just not as clean.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2012, 06:38:00 PM »
Could "roughness' be also described as a "characteristic"? It seems every element of brewing; malt hops  and yeast brings its own dynamic?

 Roughness conjurs up negative which may not be. ;)
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2012, 09:07:24 PM »
Try brewing an alt or CAP grain bill, and then split the batch with US-05 and WLP001. Then let me know your impressions.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2012, 10:02:30 PM »
I use the term characteristic because I have never tasted a bad beer, just different ones...js

I appreciate them all. Not that picky
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2012, 04:46:53 AM »
Try brewing an alt or CAP grain bill, and then split the batch with US-05 and WLP001. Then let me know your impressions.
A good friend in the club did this with a Blonde Ale (I think, or was it an APA). He is one of the most meticulous brewers I know, and has many many BoS in comps, and several medals at the NHC.  I would say this experience was not due to sloppy technique. He split a 10 gallon batch 3 ways with 1056/001/US-05.

US-05 was sharper and finished a little "tart" not bad. 001 was more nuetral and better than US-05 in peoples opinion. 1056 was the favorite, as it seemed to have the best flavor and a "rounded" finish.  The taste difference was not large in the 3, and it was smallest between 001 and 1056.

Hey guys - this would be a great thing for a club to do for Club Night.  It would give people a chance to see for themselves, and make their own decissions. 

« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 06:20:19 AM by hopfenundmalz »
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Re: Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2012, 05:55:20 AM »
A good friend in the club did this with a Blande Ale

Blande Ale? Doesn't sound very interesting. Is it a Coors clone?

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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2012, 06:08:53 AM »
I use the term characteristic because I have never tasted a bad beer, just different ones...js

I appreciate them all. Not that picky

Didn't say it was bad, just not as good. And I own a brewery - I have to picky. You can brew a pretty darn good alt with WLP001 (or actually, in my case I use Wyeast - so 1056) but you can't brew the exact same beer with US-05. It's just not as good. IPA and IIPA the difference is not nearly as apparent.
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Re: Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2012, 06:21:34 AM »
A good friend in the club did this with a Blande Ale

Blande Ale? Doesn't sound very interesting. Is it a Coors clone?

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Thanks for the correction.  Can't type very well this AM.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2012, 11:36:50 AM »
I use the term characteristic because I have never tasted a bad beer, just different ones...js

I appreciate them all. Not that picky

Didn't say it was bad, just not as good. And I own a brewery - I have to picky. You can brew a pretty darn good alt with WLP001 (or actually, in my case I use Wyeast - so 1056) but you can't brew the exact same beer with US-05. It's just not as good. IPA and IIPA the difference is not nearly as apparent.

I agree, you have to be extremely picky about the product from your brewery. Customers are cruel judges when their expectations are not met.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2012, 06:51:46 AM »
Understand though, I'm certainly not saying you can't make great beer with US-05. I'm a big fan on that yeast and it's convenience alone makes it worth pitching in many, many styles that work well with a clean yeast flavor. I'm just saying I have noticed differences between it and the liquid strain, and that IME the liquid strain is more "clean".
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »
Try brewing an alt or CAP grain bill, and then split the batch with US-05 and WLP001. Then let me know your impressions.
A good friend in the club did this with a Blonde Ale (I think, or was it an APA). He is one of the most meticulous brewers I know, and has many many BoS in comps, and several medals at the NHC.  I would say this experience was not due to sloppy technique. He split a 10 gallon batch 3 ways with 1056/001/US-05.

US-05 was sharper and finished a little "tart" not bad. 001 was more nuetral and better than US-05 in peoples opinion. 1056 was the favorite, as it seemed to have the best flavor and a "rounded" finish.  The taste difference was not large in the 3, and it was smallest between 001 and 1056.

Hey guys - this would be a great thing for a club to do for Club Night.  It would give people a chance to see for themselves, and make their own decissions.

Yes, sharp or tart, not exactly sour, though it could be mistaken for that.  I'm pretty fussy about sanitizing, so I doubt that it's bugs.  And like I said the lagers made from the same wort have no recognizable faults.  I am drinking a beer at the moment that was fermented using Danstar Windsor, and it has a clean, malty palate. My IPAs and DIPAs are pretty well hopped and I believe that may mask the tartness from S-05.  And, for sure, I haven't noticed it with WLP-001.  I must say, I have better results using liquid strains.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 03:23:11 PM »
I had some tart taste in a Mocktoberfest brewed a little too warm (65F or so).  I blamed it on the fermentation temperature, because I will use US-05 in cream ales all the time (at about 58-59F or lower) without that sharp finish.
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Re: Sour finish in beers using S-05
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2012, 06:27:13 AM »
I had some tart taste in a Mocktoberfest brewed a little too warm (65F or so).  I blamed it on the fermentation temperature, because I will use US-05 in cream ales all the time (at about 58-59F or lower) without that sharp finish.

I did as well.  It was a split batch 1/2 S-05, the other WLP833.  The lager half turned out great, the ale half had some tartness.  I'm thinking it may be related to sparge pH and the attenuation of the yeast making that fault more noticeable.  I too, ferment S-05 at 65-70F (beer temp) most of the time.
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