[theoman]

Darin, sounds good. Petr was the guy that went with us for the Toer de Gueze right?

(Are you doing that again this year?)

Yep, that's the guy. Nope, no Toer this year. It's only every other year. The Zythos Beer Festival is in 2 weeks, though. I'm planning to make multiple trips, as it's only a 15 minute drive from my house.

[biggler6]

My wife and I were in Pilsn last May. We stayed at the courtyard Marriott.  It was a wonderful hotel with better service than most full-service hotels.  There is a small restaurant directly across the street that is owned by the Pilsner Urquell brewery.  There you can get unfiltered, unpasturized pilsner, which I think comes from the old oak barrels instead of the new aluminum mega tanks.  The goulash in a bread bowl is a great pairing.

[a10t2]

Many don't recommend 3k oil changes for gasoline engines anymore.  More in the 5-7.5k range,  or when the ECM says time to change.

"Tune ups" are not needed as much for modern gasoline engines as in the past. Your plugs may go 100k miles.

I was wondering about that statement too. My 10-year old Civic's maintenance schedule recommends an oil change every 8,000 mi and a dealer checkup every 60,000. I've done the math on diesels but since I'm getting 40 mpg it would literally not pay for itself in my lifetime.

/knows nothing about cars.

[euge]

I still change my oil every 5k miles even though it is synthetic. At almost 40k I'm just now breaking in my vehicle. Manufacturer's recommendation is 10k miles.

[morticaixavier]

Many don't recommend 3k oil changes for gasoline engines anymore.  More in the 5-7.5k range,  or when the ECM says time to change.

"Tune ups" are not needed as much for modern gasoline engines as in the past. Your plugs may go 100k miles.

I was wondering about that statement too. My 10-year old Civic's maintenance schedule recommends an oil change every 8,000 mi and a dealer checkup every 60,000. I've done the math on diesels but since I'm getting 40 mpg it would literally not pay for itself in my lifetime.

/knows nothing about cars.

Well, my original statement was obviously out of date. I have been driving diesels for quite a while now. and before that I mostly drove junkers and didn't bother changing the oil. They always died of something unrelated to not having the oil changed.

It is true that just based purely on the increased fuel economy (I am getting just over 50 mpg now) you will likely not pay for the price difference between gasoline and diesel.

However, when available, I run my diesel on bio-diesel and, from an environmental standpoint I think this makes a huge difference. Running on a vegetable/algae based fuel means the carbon output of my vehicle is directly offset by the crops grown to create the fuel in the first place. so assuming bio-diesel is available to you, and you place value on environmental issues it pays for itself almost immediatly.

[redbeerman]

Running on a vegetable/algae based fuel means the carbon output of my vehicle is directly offset by the crops grown to create the fuel in the first place. so assuming bio-diesel is available to you, and you place value on environmental issues it pays for itself almost immediatly.

Plus the energy to plant it, fertilize it, harvest it, process it and transport it which makes it somewhat less desirable.  Which is why ethanol is a fallacy.   Still needs improvement, just as hydrogen costs more to generate that the energy it provides.  Food for thought.  I apologize for the hijack.

[morticaixavier]

Running on a vegetable/algae based fuel means the carbon output of my vehicle is directly offset by the crops grown to create the fuel in the first place. so assuming bio-diesel is available to you, and you place value on environmental issues it pays for itself almost immediatly.

Plus the energy to plant it, fertilize it, harvest it, process it and transport it which makes it somewhat less desirable.  Which is why ethanol is a fallacy.   Still needs improvement, just as hydrogen costs more to generate that the energy it provides.  Food for thought.  I apologize for the hijack.

currently much of the bio-diesel is manufactured from used vegetable oil products so those added costs are minimized. However the associated costs for manufacture of petro-feuls aren't zero so I think this qualifies as a strawman argument don't you? sure it's not perfect but it's one moster sized chunk better. and the paralell between ethanol and bio-deisel is not appropriate as the manufacturing processes are vastly different.

[FirstStateBrewer]

My wife and I were in Pilsn last May. We stayed at the courtyard Marriott.  It was a wonderful hotel with better service than most full-service hotels.  There is a small restaurant directly across the street that is owned by the Pilsner Urquell brewery.  There you can get unfiltered, unpasturized pilsner, which I think comes from the old oak barrels instead of the new aluminum mega tanks.  The goulash in a bread bowl is a great pairing.

That sounds really great!  I have always wanted to visit Prague/Pilsn/Czech Republic!  Great beer and some of my ancestors hail from there, as well.

BTW, +1 redbeerman  ;-)

[euge]

One day it'll be economical but maybe not affordable.

And it won't be a solution that fits everyone but what ever makes sense for the region.

[redbeerman]

Running on a vegetable/algae based fuel means the carbon output of my vehicle is directly offset by the crops grown to create the fuel in the first place. so assuming bio-diesel is available to you, and you place value on environmental issues it pays for itself almost immediatly.

Plus the energy to plant it, fertilize it, harvest it, process it and transport it which makes it somewhat less desirable.  Which is why ethanol is a fallacy.   Still needs improvement, just as hydrogen costs more to generate that the energy it provides.  Food for thought.  I apologize for the hijack.

currently much of the bio-diesel is manufactured from used vegetable oil products so those added costs are minimized. However the associated costs for manufacture of petro-feuls aren't zero so I think this qualifies as a strawman argument don't you? sure it's not perfect but it's one moster sized chunk better. and the paralell between ethanol and bio-deisel is not appropriate as the manufacturing processes are vastly different.

The processes may be different, but both still require energy to produce.  I agree that bio-diesel may be more economical to produce than ethanol, but it depends largely upon the supply of used vegetable oils, which as euge points out (indirectly), varies widely from region to region (population dependent supply). Major metropolitan areas have an abundance of this resource, whereas rural areas do not.  We do need to get there, but it may not be in my lifetime.

[morticaixavier]

Running on a vegetable/algae based fuel means the carbon output of my vehicle is directly offset by the crops grown to create the fuel in the first place. so assuming bio-diesel is available to you, and you place value on environmental issues it pays for itself almost immediatly.

Plus the energy to plant it, fertilize it, harvest it, process it and transport it which makes it somewhat less desirable.  Which is why ethanol is a fallacy.   Still needs improvement, just as hydrogen costs more to generate that the energy it provides.  Food for thought.  I apologize for the hijack.

currently much of the bio-diesel is manufactured from used vegetable oil products so those added costs are minimized. However the associated costs for manufacture of petro-feuls aren't zero so I think this qualifies as a strawman argument don't you? sure it's not perfect but it's one moster sized chunk better. and the paralell between ethanol and bio-deisel is not appropriate as the manufacturing processes are vastly different.

The processes may be different, but both still require energy to produce.  I agree that bio-diesel may be more economical to produce than ethanol, but it depends largely upon the supply of used vegetable oils, which as euge points out (indirectly), varies widely from region to region (population dependent supply). Major metropolitan areas have an abundance of this resource, whereas rural areas do not.  We do need to get there, but it may not be in my lifetime.

Bio-diesel costs approximatly 50 cents more per gallon than standard petro diesel. so it's already economical simply by adding a tax credit as EU countries already do. most areas in the world also do not have a ready supply of petroleum. so that argument doesn't really fly either. In fact, availablility of the raw materials for bio-diesel is much more widespread than that of petroleum. and the byproducts of bio-deisel production are non-toxic, often compostable whereas the byproducts of petro production will kill you fast. The amount of energy involoved with the production of bio-diesel pales in comparison to the energy needed to crack petroleum into fuel as well.

anyway, I'm gonna stop now before this become political.

[redbeerman]

In fact, availablility of the raw materials for bio-diesel is much more widespread than that of petroleum.

anyway, I'm gonna stop now before this become political.

Not if you are talking about waste vegetable oil.   That is a by-product of fast food restaurants and to my knowledge, there aren't many of those in central Africa or Siberia.

[morticaixavier]

In fact, availablility of the raw materials for bio-diesel is much more widespread than that of petroleum.

anyway, I'm gonna stop now before this become political.

Not if you are talking about waste vegetable oil.   That is a by-product of fast food restaurants and to my knowledge, there aren't many of those in central Africa or Siberia.

waste oil does not come exclusivly from fast food stores. One of the primary food items in Niger for instance is peanut cakes fried in peanut oil. and man, if i were living in siberia you can bet I will be eating one hell of a lot of fried food. meanwhile there isn't a lot of petroleum in delaware or vermont or california for that matter. pretty much every human culture has a food oil crop, if not several. and the technology required to produce food oil is a big heavy stone, some vessels to hold and 'ferment' the resultant juice and another vessel to store the oil. Add to that the technology to produce fuel from that oil, at it's most basic a way to filter out the chunks, a little more advanced tech involves a few large vessels and a heat source and some lye, this produces diesel usable in any diesel engine along with glycerin which can be composted into excellent fertilzer or made into soap, waxes and other valuable consumer goods. and, on top of all that, as long as the sun keeps burning there will always be more plants to turn into oil to turn into fuel. whereas we will even be out of coal in 500-600 years.

damn, that was aweful close to politics. alright, RBM, you think what you want to think and I will think what I want to think and our grandchildren can (maybe) argue over whether I was right or you were. in the meantime, I will fill my car with 100% renewable, slightly more expensive fuel whenever possible. 

[Slowbrew]

There are projects under way to produce bio-diesel from chicken by products too.  Pretty much any fat can be modified to work as bio-diesel.

Keep in mind that with Mr Diesel designed his engine his plan was to make if run on vegetable oil.  It was later that petroleum companies made "diesel" fuel the standard.

I agree ethanol is a boon-doggle but I am looking forward to all the stainless steel that will be on the market in Iowa when the industry collapses.

Paul

[phillamb168]

Let's not forget that corn- and soy-based ethanol is taking away land that can be used for food production, and with population growth the way it is, I think I'd rather walk to the store and eat than drive to work and starve.

The algae solution is a good one, I think, but apparently not ready for mass production yet, if I understood correctly?