Author Topic: force carbonation  (Read 6204 times)

Offline boapiu

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Palmetto Bay, FL
    • View Profile
force carbonation
« on: April 11, 2012, 04:51:09 PM »
trying to get a 2.5 gal keg carbonated in a shorter time frame than normal. I figured I would shake it a bit after it reached a colder temp. My question is: how often to rattle it's cage and for about how long. the keg is connected to a Co2 at about 10-12 psi. That is about the pressure I am aiming for on the other 5 gal keg connected to the same system.

So...... how much shaking and how often. I can just use instincts and go with what feels right, but I thought I would ask? Thanks.
Beer is an ancient beverage that has been consumed as part of a balanced diet for centuries - it contains the goodness of sprouted grain extracted into rich liquid and fermented to produce a nutritional 'liquid cereal' beverage.

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 04:53:25 PM »
If that is your serving pressure for the planned temperature, you can shake it as much as you like and it will never get over carbonated.  When the beer gets to temp, just shake away.  20 minutes should be enough to get it done, depending on how vigorously you shake it and the amount of head space.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7584
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 10:16:59 AM »
If the beer is cold it should carbonate within minutes and some good shaking. Maybe a couple minutes and let sit for 30, vent and then try a glass. Not carbonated enough? Add a bit more...

I carbed up a two liter of beer last night and it took about thirty seconds.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Be Sure To Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline boapiu

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Palmetto Bay, FL
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 02:34:39 PM »
thanks. i kinda was figuring on just giving it a go and see how it works out. I have five days and itmis only 2 1/2 gallons. do you think that because it is half the volume of a 5 gallon keg it will take less time to reach saturation? just wondering
Beer is an ancient beverage that has been consumed as part of a balanced diet for centuries - it contains the goodness of sprouted grain extracted into rich liquid and fermented to produce a nutritional 'liquid cereal' beverage.

Offline dcbc

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 01:19:49 PM »
Tom is right, if you have time, you can shake it at serving pressure and not overcarbonate.  However, if you don't want to shake it for 20 minutes, you can boost the pressure to about 30 psi, lay the keg on its side, and roll it back and forth with your feet on it while you're sitting in a chair.  I do this to a 5 gallon keg for 4 minutes, 30 seconds.  3 minutes ought to do it for a 2.5--3 gallon keg.  After this, I remove the CO2 from the keg, but don't vent it.  Put it in the serving fridge for about 6 hours.  Then, vent the CO2 and attach the CO2 tank at serving pressure. 

It's usually carbonated enough to drink at this point, but always benefits from a day or so on the gas.  I'd rather be under than over with this method.  And I've never been over except when I left the gas hooked up in a fridge at what I thought was serving pressure and had the regulator creep up over a few days or weeks without my knowledge.  That's why I always do the shake method.  My problem with set it and forget it is that I forget it and bad things seem to happen.
I've consumed all of my home brew and still can't relax!  Now what!

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3545
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 03:19:11 PM »
However, if you don't want to shake it for 20 minutes, you can boost the pressure to about 30 psi, lay the keg on its side, and roll it back and forth with your feet on it while you're sitting in a chair.  I do this to a 5 gallon keg for 4 minutes, 30 seconds.

Is it really that much of a time savings? I'm sure there's some benefit from the higher pressure, but I wasn't expecting 400%. :o
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2137
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »
Has anyone else ever had the beer go back down the carb line doing this?  I was shaking mine back and forth, listening to the bubbles in the keg and I noticed that I was getting beer back down the carb line. 

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 04:33:09 PM »
Yeah, that's a pain.  I find it minimizes the problem if I only shake with the keg more or less upright.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3545
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 04:38:33 PM »
I disconnect the gas line while I'm actually shaking. Easier that way anyway.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Offline dcbc

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 07:38:34 PM »
However, if you don't want to shake it for 20 minutes, you can boost the pressure to about 30 psi, lay the keg on its side, and roll it back and forth with your feet on it while you're sitting in a chair.  I do this to a 5 gallon keg for 4 minutes, 30 seconds.

Is it really that much of a time savings? I'm sure there's some benefit from the higher pressure, but I wasn't expecting 400%. :o

I wouldn't cause it an exact science.  I just know that 4 mins and 30 seconds works well for me for light German lagers.  For hefeweizens, I go 5 mins.  Doing at serving pressure, you go until it reaches equilibrium.  And that takes time.  When I do it, I spend some time waiting after shaking. But I prefer that to having my feet get cold and my back sore while rolling the keg around.

At 30 psi, I have not had an issue with beer in the gas line.
I've consumed all of my home brew and still can't relax!  Now what!

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7584
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 07:58:23 PM »
I have gotten beer in the gas line but this hasn't caused a problem- yet.

I have an extra gauge on the gas line that will measure keg pressure separately from the regulator.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Be Sure To Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3545
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 08:03:58 PM »
I wouldn't cause it an exact science.
No doubt. I was just curious because while I haven't timed it, I don't think I shake for much more than 5 min at serving pressure (12 psi).

Maybe I'm just shaking it more vigorously. ;)
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3945
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 06:18:17 AM »
I wouldn't cause it an exact science.
No doubt. I was just curious because while I haven't timed it, I don't think I shake for much more than 5 min at serving pressure (12 psi).

Maybe I'm just shaking it more vigorously. ;)

Lemme guess - been married for a while? I know it's done wonders for my forearms ;D

Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3545
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 07:02:46 AM »
I look more like this guy:

Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Offline dcbc

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: force carbonation
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 09:23:42 AM »
With the keg on it's side and rolling it back and forth, I'm hearing a lot of bubbling.  I have always timed it (just how I learned to do it).  As long as you let it sit without gas, but not vented for about 6 hours afterward, it's ready to go. 

It's one of the things I love about this hobby.  There are many processes that can be accomplished in a variety of ways.  As brewers, we become set in our methods for whatever reason.  But there are many methods.  None is necessarily wrong.  Each just works better for one of us versus the other for one reason or another.
I've consumed all of my home brew and still can't relax!  Now what!