[enso]

While not really wanting to get into a whole theological discussion; I'd like to give you a parallel situation. There is a (free) iPhone application called "Is your Beer Vegan?". And from all the beers listed in the program - the answer is apparently a definite NO. So if beer was "just beer" then there would be no question ( maybe with  the exception of cream stout). The point is that Hops are processed into pellets and it is important (to me) to know exactly what happens in that process. In the same way, Irish Moss - like a lot of seaweeds are coated with oil while being dryed.  

I was thinking of the whole vegan beer question as well when I was typing my reply but I did not want to go off topic. 

I personally am not looking for a theological discussion (or debate which I think is what you are suggesting/dreading?) I just really want to learn.  I think it is a completely relevant and important thing to consider.  I for one really want to learn your perspective David.

By the way, shall we assume there are no hop farms in Israel if you are having difficulty sourcing kosher hops?

[blatz]

did you guys click on pinnah's link?  this thread appears to be continuing on as if the question was not answered.

just checking.

[enso]

did you guys click on pinnah's link?  this thread appears to be continuing on as if the question was not answered.

just checking.

Yes, I saw that one possible supplier was mentioned.  I was just curious to learn more about the subject myself.  I'm just a curious monkey I guess.   

[beerocd]

While not really wanting to get into a whole theological discussion;

I thought that was OK, just no religion.
Six pack sez there's a difference. I'd like to know too, even worse is Halal vs Kosher. It's like brandy vs Cognac.

[capozzoli]

^ subtly but, pushing the envelope.^

[beerocd]

^^ Who made you HALL MONITOR ?? ^^

[capozzoli]

I just felt like I had to write something cause of the culinary references in your comment.

[beerocd]

I just felt like I had to write something cause of the culinary references in your comment.

C'mon that's just a tie back to the "What's for dinner" thread with the brandy vs Cognac. You know... culinary.

[lonetreedavid]

Ok, so the issues are a wee bit complicated - and I apologize, in advance, if bringing religion into this forum is not acceptable, I am, in now way trying to influence anybody to my way of thinking - neither Jews or non-Jews - but, rather, trying to solve a real beer issue which is important to me. I also apologize if this answer is a bit long - skip to the next posting if you want.

The issues which "could" arise with hops are basically as follows:-
1. "Mixing of crops in a field" - from the biblical prohibition of using two different types of animals to plough (together) -  also comes the prohibition of planting two different crops in the same field - or close to one another
2. Possible problems caused by Jewish farm workers working in the field on the Sabbath
3. The processing of the hop flowers into pellets; is 'something' mixed-in to make the pellet 'better' e.g. oils etc
4. Is the processing equipment used for other food-stuffs - and not properly cleaned between these different products.
5. Contamination of the hops by bugs, insects etc. The FDA "allow" a certain (very small) % of contamination. Jewish dietary laws try and prevent ALL contamination.
An example of this is Nori seaweed (and the consequences affect Irish Moss also). Naturally grown Nori attracts micro-size seahorses which become dried in with the actual seaweed. And so is not Kosher. Kosher seaweed is grown in ponds without the little seahorses riding around.

All these issues would affect all produce (and not just Hops) but, in addition (and this gets really complicated!) some issues only affect Israel  (and I'm not talking political here)
99% of the Jewish dietary laws affect produce and Jews worldwide - however, there are some issues that affect the dietary laws only in Israel. And these affect grains. All grains are divided into either "new" or "old" - in terms of when they were harvested in respect to the time of Passover. (and it doesn't matter where they were grown)

ALL these issues are fairly easily dealt with - in just takes the farmer (or whoever) to actually go to the trouble and get his products supervised by some sort of Rabbinical authority.

All my beer ingredients are covered - except the hops.

I tried to contact  Puterbaugh Farms - I found them on Google - but they never responded to email or to when I phoned them during office hours (their time).
If somebody would try and contact them on my behalf, I would be really grateful.

In general, the Beer market in Israel is in it's infancy - there are maybe three suppliers of ingredients and equipment - I'm talking 'whole country' and not 'locally' here. There are maybe a dozen microbreweries. And there are absolutely no local beer ingredients grown here - we're even short of water!  So the market is new and that's what makes it very exciting and (maybe) a great business opportunity.

The comparison between Halal (according to Muslim dietary laws) and Kosher (according to Jewish dietary laws) is a bit misleading. We all are doing are own 'thing' - with very little overlap in what is permissible to each religion. By the Koran, alcohol is forbidden - while, in the Torah, alcohol (especially wine) is sanctified and is used to sanctify. I start my Sabbath meal -coming soon - with a large glass of great red wine.

L"Chaim
David

[pinnah]

David,

Thanks a lot for the information.
I am sure all of us here can appreciate
the idea of being mindful of what ingredients we put into our craft.

Hops Direct (Puterbaugh Farms) are good folks,
but typically take a little time to respond to inquiry.

I recommend persistence, and try the e-mail form.

Best of luck,
and happy brewing.

[lonetreedavid]

Thanks for the link - I will keep trying to contact them

[beerocd]

Thanks for taking the time to write that long post. I never knew that stuff, (not that I need to), it is interesting.

[Thirsty_Monk]

David,
How about whole flower hops. Would that be O.K.?

If there is a shortage of water someone claimed that for each gallon of beer you use 8 gallons of water (cooling, cleaning....).
Do you think that this is still interesting business proposition?

[a10t2]

Why would that be prohibited?

I'm not even going to pretend to know the answer, but 10 verses later you have:

But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

So maybe we should just avoid discussing Deuteronomy altogether.

[enso]

Thanks for enlightening us David.  Sounds like you have your work cut out for you on top of all the business aspects (licensing etc.) of a brewery!  Best wishes in your endeavors.  Wish I had a supplier for you.

Have you looked into suppliers from Europe at all?  I would think importing from there would be a bit less dear price wise.

I would recommend starting your own hopyard but a) you mentioned a water shortage so, no go there, and b) you have ebough to worry about just getting things up and going!