Author Topic: The Secondary Topic Revisited  (Read 1870 times)

Offline theoman

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
  • Outskirts of Brussels, Belgium
    • View Profile
The Secondary Topic Revisited
« on: April 14, 2012, 11:09:46 AM »
You all have managed to convince me that doing a secondary fermentation isn't necessary for most beers. I'm curious - is the opinion the same for lagers?

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 11:10:55 AM »
You all have managed to convince me that doing a secondary fermentation isn't necessary for most beers. I'm curious - is the opinion the same for lagers?

Pretty much so.  I do. long primary, a d rest if needed, then keg for lagering.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Wheat_Brewer

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Bad Bunny Brewing
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 11:52:11 AM »
I transfer my lagers to a secondary bucket after primary fermentation is complete, usually a couple weeks after pitching. I know some people use kegs to lager...but I don't have enough kegs, or at least the discipline to keep a keg as a lagering keg for that long  ???
Homebrewing isn't my obsession, it's my life calling, there's a difference.

AHA Lifetime Member

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 12:11:13 PM »
When I still bottled most of my beers I used a secondary to lager.  It works well for that.  Now that I keg I secondary in the keg.  I can usually keep enough beers on tap to keep me off of the lagering beers until they're ready.
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 07:04:53 AM »
Not sure if this is correct but I consider a lagering period to be a secondary.  So I'd say no to your question.  You do want to secondary your lagers.  I typically let them ferment for a good three weeks or so, then a short d-rest and keg for lagering.  You want the beer on the yeast cake for the d-rest to be maximally effective, after that I see no reason to do a secondary prior to lagering since the beer will drop bright during lagering and if it doesn't you can fine during this time.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline nateo

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2210
  • Denver, CO
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 10:17:17 AM »
With any aspect of brewing, I've found it useful to stop and think about the why of what you're doing. Just because it's "common sense" doesn't mean it's actually necessary. What do you want to get out of a secondary, and can you get the same results without it?
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 10:43:24 AM »
With any aspect of brewing, I've found it useful to stop and think about the why of what you're doing. Just because it's "common sense" doesn't mean it's actually necessary. What do you want to get out of a secondary, and can you get the same results without it?

You, sir, receive today's Gold Star for Pragmatism!  Good on ya!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 10:51:25 AM »
I transfer my lagers to a secondary bucket after primary fermentation is complete, usually a couple weeks after pitching. I know some people use kegs to lager...but I don't have enough kegs, or at least the discipline to keep a keg as a lagering keg for that long  ???

I'm surprised you don't have problems with acetobacter or oxidation by secondarying in a bucket. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to secondary on anything that it not air tight. And really you need to purge the container with co2 as well or at the very least the headspace.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 11:01:58 AM by majorvices »
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 11:26:24 AM »
If you transfer when theres still penty of CO2 in the liquid, I think it would kind of self-purge.  I don't think a bucket is going to let in acetobacter, thats not been my experience.  But some oxidation would eventually be possible.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline nateo

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2210
  • Denver, CO
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 12:35:31 PM »
You, sir, receive today's Gold Star for Pragmatism!  Good on ya!

Thanks Denny! Also, that wasn't a rhetorical question for the OP. I'm seriously wondering what specifically they want to get out of secondary-ing their lager.
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 12:38:44 PM »
If you transfer when theres still penty of CO2 in the liquid, I think it would kind of self-purge.  I don't think a bucket is going to let in acetobacter, thats not been my experience.  But some oxidation would eventually be possible.

My experience is once the co2 is gone acetobacter gets in wether it's from a dry airlock or a bucket that has sat too long.  A bucket is a bad idea as a secondary from just about any standpoint unless you are starting up a second fermentation with fruit or something.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 12:48:59 PM »
You, sir, receive today's Gold Star for Pragmatism!  Good on ya!

Thanks Denny! Also, that wasn't a rhetorical question for the OP. I'm seriously wondering what specifically they want to get out of secondary-ing their lager.

I understand.  That's a valuable question to ask about any practice in home brewing.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1703
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 04:44:13 PM »
I leave the lager in the primary for a month usually.  For a shorter time only if I need to free up a primary, but then I will lager it in the keg for a slightly longer period than is typical (a little more than one month).  I rarely do a d rest anymore.  When I rack to the keg, I do so with a keg that has been purged of O2 (I store my kegs under CO2 pressure with a little Star San in there, which I remove by depressing the out post on the keg.

Of course YMMV with a different SOP....
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Online a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3711
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 07:45:21 PM »
My experience is once the co2 is gone acetobacter gets in wether it's from a dry airlock or a bucket that has sat too long.

FWIW, that hasn't been my experience. I try to lager in kegs, but when I need to I'll use a bucket, and I've never had any problems with contamination or oxidation. I generally lager for a month or so.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7965
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: The Secondary Topic Revisited
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 08:46:09 PM »
My experience is once the co2 is gone acetobacter gets in wether it's from a dry airlock or a bucket that has sat too long.

FWIW, that hasn't been my experience. I try to lager in kegs, but when I need to I'll use a bucket, and I've never had any problems with contamination or oxidation. I generally lager for a month or so.

Weird. The only times i have ever had an acetobacter infections is in buckets where I let the beer sit in the primary too long. or in carboys where I was secondarying and forgot about it and the airlock went dry. I personally think secondarying in buckets is a terrible idea and I would completely advise against it. Totally surprised to see anyone with any brewing experience to have contrary views.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!