Author Topic: Running - What have I gotten myself into?  (Read 12558 times)

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6074
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2012, 01:11:05 PM »
Narvin - here's a pretty good article: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-267-268-8210-0,00.html

Bo - I do think there are better forms of exercise, specifically weight training and especially if you are trying to lose weight. But to say running is a "bad" form of exercise if just plain wrong.

I prefer hiking, myself, especially since I have thousands of acres of trails literally out my back door.

I also totally agree to start slow, brisk walking mostly at first and running on short distances, especially if you are overweight.

personally I prefer 'pleasantly plush' but to each his own  ;D
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2012, 01:11:46 PM »

Humans are made to walk. we are made to walk all day but still, mostly walk. We are capable of running and actually pretty good at it but mostly for short periods, not long periods. Horses are made to run. Long, flexible tendons between 'heel' and 'toe' allow alot of energy to be absorbed and reapplied in the next stage of the gate without putting alot of repetative impact up and down the spine. All the really good running creatures are quadrapeds (okay, kangaroos, but they bounce not run) so the spine is not compressed on every step. We can run, and I know lots of people that run alot and are healthier than they might be because of it. and good shoes can make a huge difference if your form is not picture perfect. but these are all methods for reducing the impact on your body, which if we were meant to run evolution would have taken care of already.

There's a lot of evidence out there that disagrees with you. Again, a lot of you think you know a lot about running but you aren't runners and haven't spent time researching or practicing it. This is like the guy who swears Miller is the best beer in the world trying to tell you that bock is made from the bottom of the barrel.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 01:13:49 PM by majorvices »
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2012, 01:12:07 PM »
Never mind, I found an article that says to pretend you're holding potato chips in your hands and that your bowel is a bowl full of marbles.   :D

The definition of good form is pretty anecdotal.  Does good form cause good running?  Or are good runners born with bodies that display this supposed good running form?  It's not like throwing a curveball... I find it hard to believe that you can alter your running form that much without significant training.  You're moving your entire body in concert, and it depends a lot on your strength, body shape, center of gravity, etc.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 01:15:15 PM by narvin »
Please do not reply if your an evil alien!
Thanks
Chris S.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2012, 01:15:05 PM »
It's not that big of a deal learning to run with good form. when I first started running I did not use good form. when I learned good form I was actually able to run long distances without getting tired.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline sparkleberry

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2012, 01:18:22 PM »
it took me a month and a half of running 2.2 miles every other day to get my stride/form into a better impact absorption stride.  it wasn't hard, but it took time.  it is very possible to not hurt your body while running.
cheers.

rpl
apertureales

Offline beersk

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2012, 01:32:16 PM »

Humans are made to walk. we are made to walk all day but still, mostly walk. We are capable of running and actually pretty good at it but mostly for short periods, not long periods. Horses are made to run. Long, flexible tendons between 'heel' and 'toe' allow alot of energy to be absorbed and reapplied in the next stage of the gate without putting alot of repetative impact up and down the spine. All the really good running creatures are quadrapeds (okay, kangaroos, but they bounce not run) so the spine is not compressed on every step. We can run, and I know lots of people that run alot and are healthier than they might be because of it. and good shoes can make a huge difference if your form is not picture perfect. but these are all methods for reducing the impact on your body, which if we were meant to run evolution would have taken care of already.

Good post, Mort.  I think you nailed it there.  Humans have long since evolved out of the necessity for running.  Really the only time most animal species run in nature is because they're either chasing or being chased.  Humans most definitely evolved to be walkers, not runners.  Because we can do it, doesn't mean we should.  And I don't think weight lifting is the best exercise for losing weight, either.  The fat will stay there until you do some cardiovascular exercise, which burns fat and calories of the entire body (running if you will).  And maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am.  But I think low impact cardio exercise is the best for fat burning.
I'd definitely suggest brisk walking or even swimming.  Swimming is f*cking HARD!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 01:35:11 PM by beersk »
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2012, 01:38:39 PM »
Hey beersk, in all seriousness, do you keep in shape? How many times a week do you work out? Just curious.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline beersk

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2012, 01:51:13 PM »
Hey beersk, in all seriousness, do you keep in shape? How many times a week do you work out? Just curious.
I ride a bike everyday to work.  I'm not in "pro athlete" shape by any means, but I'm in pretty decent shape.  I ride about 9-11 miles a day to work and occasionally do rides after work and on the weekends.  Sometimes I like to do night rides where I head out at about 9 or so, get on my fixed gear, music blasting, and ride hard as hell for like 17-20 miles.  I need to start doing that again.
So, yes, I would say I lead an active lifestyle.
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2012, 01:52:15 PM »
I was going to say, because a lot of what you say is totally not true! It's obvious to me that you really don;t know much about  weight loss or fitness.

As far as weight training for weight loss goes, a lot of modern research sugggest that weight training is the most effective way to lose weight (along with a proper diet). It's pretty well known fact. A little research is all you would need to do. Here's a snipped from an article I found with a simple search.

Quote
t's common to associate building muscle with weight lifting and fat loss with cardio training. Unfortunately, by doing so, you're really selling yourself short on potential results that could be seen if you truly understand the intricacies of working out, particularly when it comes to weight lifting for fat loss.

Weight lifting can actually prove to be a very effective method for losing weight, provided you go about it in the right manner. Here is the information you need to know about why you should choose weight lifting to help with fat loss, and how to design a program to get the results you desire.
weight lifting for fat loss
Increased metabolic rate
The first reason weight lifting is a good option for fat loss is because it boosts metabolic rate both over the short term as well as over the long term. In the hours after an intense weight-lifting session you will experience an increase in metabolic rate. What’s more, weight lifting will help you maintain your total amount of lean muscle mass, creating a permanent increase in metabolism.

Cardio training will only cause a short rise in metabolic rate for an hour or two after the session, taking away from the overall calorie-burning benefits compared with resistance training.

Often, overdoing cardio will actually decrease your total lean body mass, so you could see a reduction in metabolism over time working against your fat loss efforts.
Altered body composition
The second reason to choose weight lifting for fat loss purposes is because, while cardio may make you lose weight, weight lifting will help you lose body fat, altering your body composition.

Many individuals who just hop on the treadmill to lose the pounds don’t end up looking much different -- even if they do successfully lose 10 to 20 pounds. This is because they still have the same proportion of muscle mass to body fat; they are just "smaller."

Weight training will help change the way you look completely, giving the impression that you’ve replaced fat with muscle and are actually working at improving your body and changing your body composition.

Weight lifting for fat loss is a great alternative to cardio and will give you better, more visible results...

Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline repo

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
  • San Diego CA
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2012, 01:53:53 PM »
The surface that you run on will have the greatest affect on your knees, joints. Shoes are so much nicer now  but the new fad is the five finger shoes which are barely past being barefoot. There are indeed many exercises that create less wear and tear on the body than running. Not every body type will lend itself well to running. Running is great exercise and lots of people do it without suffering direct knee and joint issues.

Its very funny to me to read of the ills of running on a beer website in the worlds most obese nation. :o

People run faster and farther than any time in known history- isn't that evolution?


Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6074
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2012, 02:23:15 PM »
I was going to say, because a lot of what you say is totally not true! It's obvious to me that you really don;t know much about  weight loss or fitness.

As far as weight training for weight loss goes, a lot of modern research sugggest that weight training is the most effective way to lose weight (along with a proper diet). It's pretty well known fact. A little research is all you would need to do. Here's a snipped from an article I found with a simple search.


Major,

I too keep in pretty good shape most of the time. I have been out of training for a while but my normal practice throughout my life has been to work out everyday for 1-2 hours (depending on the amount of free time I have) and try to get out in the fresh air as often as possible. I actually agree with you on the weight training as good weight loss. If you increase muscle mass you significantly increase daily resting calorie burn rate. While cardio is mostly about what calories you burn while doing the activity. So the result of 1 hour cardio may be 600 calories burned in an hour but the result of weight training can be hundreds more calories burned everyday aside from the hundreds burned actually lifting.

I am not trying to say no one should run, I think I said that I know people who run and are healthier for it. I was simply saying that it can be hard on the body and poor form can make it worse. Weight training can be hard on the body as well, I once pulled an ab muscle and that was possibly the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced. But right up there with that was when I pounded my back into mush running, in running shoes, good running shoes, on a treadmill for about 20 minutes.

I also know that when I have been away from training for a while and become a little plumper for it running can be even worse simply because the total mass moving up and coming down and thus compressing my spine is greater. The very best overall excercise FOR ME is yoga combined with light to moderate weight training and maybe a little cardio thrown in for good measure. Each person has to find the excercise regime that works for them. for some that may mean running. for others running, whether with good form or bad, can cause distress. I know a guy that runs a marathon every day. he weighs about 2 pounds and occasionally gets blown off course by a stiff wind (joking somewhat but he is slight) and he never has any problems at all with his back or knees. I know a guy, 6'2" benches 200+ pounds and can end up flat on the floor with back pain out of the blue. you have to address the issue for yourself. I was simply trying to give GMAC a caution about jumping into an excercise that CAN have negative impact on his back when I remembered him having issues with his back before.

One thing I have personally experienced is the benefit of yoga on core strength (abs, lower back) and how that can really reduce your chances of back injury in the future.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2098
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2012, 03:23:03 PM »
I'm almost regretting posting this clearly contentious topic. 

Offline beersk

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1957
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2012, 03:37:01 PM »
I remember when I used to lift weights.  I never stretched and lost a lot of flexibility because of it.  I've gotten a lot or more back from my hamstrings from stretching everyday.  I used to run a lot back in 2003 also, trails, like 4-5 miles a day.  Then one day I just lost interest, it didn't feel good to me anymore.  I've tried going back to it several times since then to no avail.  Oh well, I found cycling and that's my thing.  Yoga is something I'd like to try.  The important thing is leading a healthy active lifestyle.  I bike everyday, walk as much as I can, take the stairs instead of the elevator (my girlfriend doesn't like that so much, but I make her do it anyway).  Anything not involving driving a f*cking car to go somewhere within reasonable biking or walking distance.  I get pissed at my roommate when he drives to the store to get like a sack full or less of food and he drives there (we live 2 blocks from the store).  Whatever...
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6074
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2012, 03:40:53 PM »
I'm almost regretting posting this clearly contentious topic.

who knew huh? folks are more militant about their choice of exercise than they are about brewing! For what it's worth I think it's awesome to set a goal for yourself like that and really fight through to acheive it. I really didn't mean to discourage you. I think you should go for it, just take it slow. and if you have the time and opportunity check out some yoga classes. I really like classes because then you have someone there to help correct your postures before you hurt yourself. I have also injured myself doing yoga. one word of advice when in plow position (on back with feet all the way over your head, toes touching ground) DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!!! not even a little. my neck hurt for a week.

anyway, let us know how the 5K goes!
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1242
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Running - What have I gotten myself into?
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2012, 03:56:03 PM »
I'm almost regretting posting this clearly contentious topic.

who knew huh? folks are more militant about their choice of exercise than they are about brewing! For what it's worth I think it's awesome to set a goal for yourself like that and really fight through to acheive it. I really didn't mean to discourage you. I think you should go for it, just take it slow. and if you have the time and opportunity check out some yoga claosses. I really like classes because then you have someone there to help correct your postures before you hurt yourself. I have also injured myself doing yoga. one word of advice when in plow position (on back with feet all the way over your head, toes touching ground) DON'T TURN YOUR HEAD!!!! not even a little. my neck hurt for a week.
anyway, let us know how the 5K goes!

Yeah, I was gonna say, I am shocked that homebrewers are also passionate about other hobbies ;)

Good luck, I like running but will never be an extreme marathoner like some of my friends.  Keep at it and go at your own pace.  The health benefits of those first few miles are far more important than becoming a pro.
Please do not reply if your an evil alien!
Thanks
Chris S.