Author Topic: Is it CDA or BIPA?  (Read 7183 times)

Offline firedog23

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Is it CDA or BIPA?
« on: April 18, 2012, 01:28:50 PM »
So the whole Black IPA thing is starting to gather steam over here in Jolly Ole England, home of the IPA.  The few that I have had has made it my favorite style. Where I am struggling is reading the reviews and forum posts and Cascadian Dark Ale seems to be a sticking point with many people, at least the Pacific NW. My question is, why is it not a CDA? I read that for it to be a CDA that it needs Cascadisan hops. Why? Does a stout or porter only require English Fuggles or EKG? We reinvented the IPA with bigger hops and ABV's but it is still rooted in England.

As American beer drinkers/brewers, we have the chance to define an American style yet we choose to call it a Black IPA. For the 6 years I hae been over here in England, I have had to finish the start of this conversation, "so how do you like our beer in comparisome to American beer..?" American beer in England is still Bud or Coors to the mass majority over here. Let's make CDA ours, regardless of the hops. Plus, there are plenty of Pacific NW hops being used in other styles over here and they don't seem that bothered bit.

Alright, I am off my soap box.

Very respectfully,
Cascadian Dark Ale Fan
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Online tschmidlin

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 01:56:34 PM »
I've never heard the CDA/Cascade hops argument.  Some people don't like the name CDA because they claim it is not originally a PNW style.  I hate the Black IPA name because something can't be both black and pale.  Not to mention that Black IPA I had last night was brown, not black.

I don't really care what we call it, but it should have a name if only as a shorthand.  I use CDA.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 02:18:34 PM »
The first batch of Black IPA was brewed on December 4, 1994 by Greg Noonan and Glenn Walter, at the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT.  At least this is the earliest documented beer classified as a "Black IPA". Call it what you will though. I call it BIPA.

http://smuttynose.blogspot.com/2011/07/smuttynose-short-batch-12-noonan.html
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Offline garyg

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 03:10:48 PM »
The Brewers Association style guide used for Great American Beer Festival uses the term American Black Ale.

I too don't like Black IPA, because 1) Black is not Pale and 2) the style has absolutely nothing to do with India.

I don't care for the Cascadian Dark Ale moniker, since there are many of these beers made all over the country, including the beer from the Vermont Pub and Brewery that pre-dates those made popular in the Pacific Northwest. 
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 03:52:36 PM »
I like IBA - India Black Ale.  Black IPA is an oxymoron and Cascadian Dark Ale just sounds moronic :o
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Offline Pinski

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 04:14:31 PM »
Black IPA, lame
India Black Ale, okay
American Black Ale, not bad
Cascadian Dark Ale; If it's made in Cascadia by Cascadians, with water from the Cascade watersheds, malt produced in Cascadia (Great Western or Gambrinus) and hops grown in Cascadia (most all domestics), and yeast cultured in Cascadia (Wyeast) then it's a fricken Cascadian Dark Ale if that's what the brewer want's to call it. 
If for BJCP purposes it's American Black Ale, big deal.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 04:20:57 PM by Pinski »
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 04:24:32 PM »
The first batch of Black IPA was brewed on December 4, 1994 by Greg Noonan and Glenn Walter, at the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT.  At least this is the earliest documented beer classified as a "Black IPA". Call it what you will though. I call it BIPA.

http://smuttynose.blogspot.com/2011/07/smuttynose-short-batch-12-noonan.html

This is why I call it a Noonanian Dark Ale, an NDA if you will.

By the way Glenn should be credited with bringing me to the light of good micro/nano scale beer. His brewery/taproom The Three Needs was my 'third place' for many many years. I spent christmas at that bar, new years eve, my birthday, easter... presidents day... groundhogs day... thursday... there. I learned to be a damn good pool player and had so much fun I cannot even recount it all. Man I miss that bar. sigh.

Offline repo

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 05:13:41 PM »
BIPA, until I hear someone explain it better in 2 words or less.

Offline krazykrausen

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 05:28:35 PM »
As I see it, "American India" pale makes as much sense as black India pale ale. 

The acronym for India pale ale, IPA, has become it's own unique creature.

Thus I support Black IPA


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Offline narvin

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 06:21:46 PM »
As I see it, "American India" pale makes as much sense as black India pale ale. 

The acronym for India pale ale, IPA, has become it's own unique creature.

Thus I support Black IPA


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+1

It's not a style in its own right so much as its a modification of the IPA style, and the name should reflect this IMO.
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Offline bonjour

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 06:39:55 PM »
I think of them as DHA's Dark Hoppy Ales
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Offline The Professor

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 07:48:54 PM »
I think of them as DHA's Dark Hoppy Ales

Same here.  Dark Hoppy Ale.
That's what I've always referred to it as, ...not only because because that's all it is, but mainly because that name describes it perfectly
(I do kind of like the name "American Black Ale" as well however).

I'm still not convinced it's a particularly 'new' concept anyway.  The only new thing new about it is the ongoing mission to give it a high falootin' name.   ;D
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Online tschmidlin

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 10:06:58 PM »
The first batch of Black IPA was brewed on December 4, 1994 by Greg Noonan and Glenn Walter, at the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT.  At least this is the earliest documented beer classified as a "Black IPA". Call it what you will though. I call it BIPA.

http://smuttynose.blogspot.com/2011/07/smuttynose-short-batch-12-noonan.html

This is why I call it a Noonanian Dark Ale, an NDA if you will.

By the way Glenn should be credited with bringing me to the light of good micro/nano scale beer. His brewery/taproom The Three Needs was my 'third place' for many many years. I spent christmas at that bar, new years eve, my birthday, easter... presidents day... groundhogs day... thursday... there. I learned to be a damn good pool player and had so much fun I cannot even recount it all. Man I miss that bar. sigh.
It was brewed by Walter, not Noonan.  And it was Walter's recipe.  I have heard though, that there was a Canadian brewery making a similar beer around the same time.

ABA is fine, DHA works, but BIPA will never work for me.

Quote
Brewing records provided by Polewacyk show that, on Dec. 4, 1994, Glenn Walter, then an assistant brewer under the auspices of Noonan, brewed the initial batch of Blackwatch IPA, a dark and hoppy interpretation of the style. Walter, who owns Three Needs Taproom & Brewery in Burlington, says that the beer was his recipe, brewed with Noonan’s approval and guidance. “I was going through a divorce at the time,” he recalls, “so I wanted to brew something that expressed what I was feeling and Greg gave me a relatively free hand. I got the idea from Bill Owens’ Alimony Ale bitterest beer in America).” The “black and bitter” slogan which appeared on the beer’s label perfectly expressed his feelings, Walter says.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 10:56:14 PM »
The first batch of Black IPA was brewed on December 4, 1994 by Greg Noonan and Glenn Walter, at the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT.  At least this is the earliest documented beer classified as a "Black IPA". Call it what you will though. I call it BIPA.

http://smuttynose.blogspot.com/2011/07/smuttynose-short-batch-12-noonan.html

This is why I call it a Noonanian Dark Ale, an NDA if you will.

By the way Glenn should be credited with bringing me to the light of good micro/nano scale beer. His brewery/taproom The Three Needs was my 'third place' for many many years. I spent christmas at that bar, new years eve, my birthday, easter... presidents day... groundhogs day... thursday... there. I learned to be a damn good pool player and had so much fun I cannot even recount it all. Man I miss that bar. sigh.
It was brewed by Walter, not Noonan.  And it was Walter's recipe.  I have heard though, that there was a Canadian brewery making a similar beer around the same time.

ABA is fine, DHA works, but BIPA will never work for me.

Quote
Brewing records provided by Polewacyk show that, on Dec. 4, 1994, Glenn Walter, then an assistant brewer under the auspices of Noonan, brewed the initial batch of Blackwatch IPA, a dark and hoppy interpretation of the style. Walter, who owns Three Needs Taproom & Brewery in Burlington, says that the beer was his recipe, brewed with Noonan’s approval and guidance. “I was going through a divorce at the time,” he recalls, “so I wanted to brew something that expressed what I was feeling and Greg gave me a relatively free hand. I got the idea from Bill Owens’ Alimony Ale bitterest beer in America).” The “black and bitter” slogan which appeared on the beer’s label perfectly expressed his feelings, Walter says.

that's funny cause I know him as one of the happiest guys in the world. Always a smile and a greeting. and free champagne on NYE

Offline Pinski

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Re: Is it CDA or BIPA?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 11:32:07 PM »
Nice lesson, even the happiest among us go through bitter times. Seems he was able to work through it and get to a good place.  Created a hell of a good beer in the process. Cheers!
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