Author Topic: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?  (Read 3339 times)

Offline redbeerman

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 09:34:21 AM »
That's why I don't hire anyone whose resume and/or interview doesn't reflect the ability to form cogent thoughts.  If you're lazy with your words, you're lazy with everything else--so there's no place for you here.

I like this guy! 8)  I think it may have something to do with a lot of people in our country with advanced degrees having English as a second language.  I will not rant, I will not rant. :P
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 09:38:28 AM by redbeerman »
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Offline bo

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2012, 09:39:16 AM »
But when he wants to really wants to make a thoughtful point his grammar, et al, is perfect.

That is really wanting something. :D

Offline dbeechum

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 10:12:13 AM »
Grammar and basic execution of it are fluid over time. Part of my job these days is designing systems that can do useful things with online communication and wow.. trust me, you ain't seen nothing. Learned a lot about natural language doing these projects.

Now, having said that, we currently sit at the highest literacy rate we've experienced and the lack of formality in language is really nothing new. I love doing historical research and reading on various topics and you'd be really surprised at how awful grammar and spelling were in the past. English as we know it now has been through several standardization attempts (something the French still do actively) and it's the only reason we have any sort of nearly uniform conventions that we do.

The worst of those passes was back in the 1800's when grammarians decided that English needed to be more Latin like in grammar (cause Latin was perfect!). One side effect of that was my favorite ranting subject, the banning of the split infinitive. Since in Latin, an infinitive verb is just one word (as opposed to English's 2 word construct "to go"), the  grammar police decided that it was improper to casually split an infinitive. Thankfully, that rule has been dropped by all but the most Procrustean grammar hawks or we'd never have had "To Boldly Go".

So, wait, what was I saying? Oh yeah, grammar.. informal language has always been atrocious. Look at the graffiti from Ancient Rome or Greece. (The Greeks had a word for grammar/vocab misuses - solecism. It came from them making fun of the dialect of a Greek colony) Look at the odd  personal abbreviation and short cutting systems used by scribes copying ancient texts, etc. (Part of the reason translating ancient texts is problematic)

And then.. here in America, where being/displaying an education has always been viewed with a jaundiced eye by a majority of the population, you have people who deliberately avoid appearing too conversant with grammar rules to fit in. So, language.. it's a sticky wicket and always appears to quickly heading somewhere awful, but f##k it, it's a piss poor way to transmit ideas and the only one we have.

And why do I have a chihuahua sitting on my neck, this is awkward...
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Offline narvin

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Offline majorvices

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 10:36:34 AM »
That was alota fun! ;D
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 10:39:10 AM »
I love Allie. Her last post about fighting depression made me sad, but I can't wait to see her book.
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Offline richardt

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2012, 10:55:42 AM »
That's why I don't hire anyone whose resume and/or interview doesn't reflect the ability to form cogent thoughts.  If you're lazy with your words, you're lazy with everything else--so there's no place for you here.

I like this guy! 8)  I think it may have something to do with a lot of people in our country with advanced degrees having English as a second language.  I will not rant, I will not rant. :P

Just to be clear:  That's your opinion, and not mine. 

Generally speaking, a highly-educated individual is not lazy.  In my experience, Americans are often worse than highly-educated foreigners for whom English is a second language.  With regards to highly-educated foreigners, I often find their grammar and syntax to be quite good, although the occasional word juxtaposition and unusual delivery/pronunciation can be amusing.  With regards to conversational English, the foreign accents do make it extremely difficult to understand at times.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2012, 11:03:14 AM »

And as far as the double space goes, I was never taught such a thing. Must be back from the days of, what were they called... oh yeah - typewriters, right? :)

The double space was taught back in the days of typewriters, because every letter had identical kerning at that time, and so the extra space made it easier to spot sentence structure, and not just an i next to a j with a big kern gap in the middle.  Nowadays with word processing and variable kerning, the need for the double space is lost, and apparently the official rule (if there is one) is to single space.  The auto correction of iOS of a double space to period and single space doesnt help.

But I will continue to double space, if nothing else just to piss off my marketing team who have to edit every paper I write.

I learned the "double space" rule when I learned to type on an old manual typewriter.  I was not very good at that class but once the 3 fingers on right hand could move again I will never be able to not double space the way Sr. Pershing taught me.   ;D

(The preceding statement was intended as a joke.  My typing teacher was a civilian and I really do remember fondly almost all the Nuns who taught me over the years.)  8)

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Offline nateo

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2012, 11:15:11 AM »
With regards to highly-educated foreigners, I often find their grammar and syntax to be quite good

I've always assumed this is because they took the time and effort to actually learn the rules of grammar. Native speakers internalize them, sometimes very poorly. I can't define "participle," but I know some Koreans who can.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2012, 11:28:56 AM »
I double space.
I hate the word reiterate.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2012, 11:41:03 AM »
With regards to highly-educated foreigners, I often find their grammar and syntax to be quite good, although the occasional word juxtaposition and unusual delivery/pronunciation can be amusing.

Hey, I resemble that comment... :D
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Offline gmac

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2012, 03:10:37 PM »
Am I one of those "highly educated foreigners"?

I double space because its tradition...and without our traditions, we are as shaky as a fiddler on the roof. (Insert Topol picture here)

Offline weazletoe

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2012, 03:46:18 PM »
Capitalization, and puncuation is the difference between helping your uncle, Jack, off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.  :o
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »
Am I one of those "highly educated foreigners"?

I double space because its tradition...and without our traditions, we are as shaky as a fiddler on the roof. (Insert Topol picture here)

Nah, everyone knows canadians are just polite americans  ;) (I actually think that vermonters are canadians who can't take the winters)


Offline loopy

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Re: How long before there are no spelling or grammar rules?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2012, 04:00:25 PM »
love this flower.