[markaberrant]

[weithman5]

I just don't think I can be in favor of stipends for judges.  I could see a raffle and gifts for judges, but stipends just sound like added complications for competition organizers.

not that i judge, but I agree. it is a hobby.  do judges usually get a sandwhich to eat?  (i know they get some beer to drink)

[hopfenundmalz]

If some person new to the hobby in the last year decided to enter and the entries were closed, then I might have some sympathy.

If someone has been in the hobby and entered before, saw the first regional center fill up 2 years back, then rule changes were made to accomadate those that got shut out.  Then all of the center fill up last year (no longer regions) and 10th region added this year to allow for more entries was the change taken by the committee. Then this years competition fills up in about 2+ days..  If anyone was surprised by this after the conference sold out in 2 days, then they have not been paying attention.

Part of this situation is that they hobby has been growing faster than the judge pool.  The changes in the BJCP testing should help to grow the pool of judges.  If you are not BJCP, time to think about taking the test and becoming part of the solution. To back that line up of thinking , I wrote the exam last year, am now BJCP Certified (dang hard, had not taken a test like that since Nixon was in office), and helped judge at Indianapolis.

Yes, you get lunch, and have a chance to talk to others you know from online forums.

[marty]

I heard there was a dude in texas that entered there with 70+ entries!

between entry fees, cost of brewing and shipping that would have to cost $3000 minimum

[cryogen]

I hope that guy won something, it's almost 5% of the total entries for the region!

Ha ha, I know the feeling.  Obviously, the old days of having brewers shotgun 30+ entries into NHC will be coming to an end soon. 

As to prior comments in this thread, NHC and the AHA are all about inclusiveness.  I know personally 5 or 6 club members (across several clubs I belong to) who were upset that they didn't get to enter their one or two beers they had worked so hard to perfect into the competition - because it sold out in roughy 8 hours!!!  Not everyone can sit in front of their computer clicking on "refresh" until the entry windows opens and spring in to snap up 36 entry slots!

Believe it or not, some people still work digging ditches, or behind a desk at the DMV and don't have the luxury of Internet access all day.  Selling out in 8 hours before they even got home was a big disappointment to many brewers.

I am sure this will change soon :-0

-- Jon Koerber, Organizer San Francisco Region

[Joe Sr.]

Crispy pointed out in the other thread that capping entries at 10 per member would only create between 2 and 4% additional availability.

That's not going to have an appreciable impact particularly if it filled up in 8 hours.

[cryogen]

Crispy pointed out in the other thread that capping entries at 10 per member would only create between 2 and 4% additional availability.

That's not going to have an appreciable impact particularly if it filled up in 8 hours.

Crispy is correct, but only if you assume every brewer would use all 10 entry slots available to them.

It all depends on the average number of beers entered by each individual. 

For example, when I looked back at my region database results in San Francisco, approximately 9% of the brewers in our region accounted for over 32% of the total of our 750 entries.  That's a whole lotta biscuits!

We had a total of 127 brewers entered, of which the largest entry count was 36.  But many other brewers entered 25 or more beers.  If you consider knocking entry limits to 10 or 8 or 5 per brewer it would greatly increase inclusiveness. 

Running more numbers shows that the vast majority of brewers entered less than 5 beers.  So there will be a spread of brewers sending 1, 2, or three beers.  Weighing in the percentages of folks with one entry, 2 entries, etc... the pool of available entry slots would expand much more.  When I factored 20% of entrants entering one beer, 15% of entrants entering 2 beers, 12% of brewers with three beers and so on - I can get another 30 - 40 brewers able to enter the competition.  That to me is a lot of additional folks who can get involved in this wonderful experience.

Maybe someone at the AHA is a wiz a calculating complicated crowd formulas and could better describe this than I can?

[tomsawyer]

Yes you get a sandwich, some beer, and comraderie.  You also might get a fusel-induced headache and hand cramps from judging 24 beers in one day.  Sometimes its not quite as glorious as it sounds.

[gbrooks]

Scoresheets for Pittsburgh went out in the mail early this morning. We finished the judging Saturday morning. Just like Jon, I went over every scoresheet to make sure that the flight summary sheets matched the scoresheets and that every scoresheet had the correct score, the mini-BOS box was checked if appropriate, and that any beers that placed were marked as such.

Thank you for your patience.

Greg

[gbrooks]

Also, to expand what Jon wrote. There were 164 brewers registered in Pittsburgh. Most had 1-3 beers entered. The most entries for any one brewer in Pittsburgh was 46 and a few others had approximately 15-20 entries each.

[repo]

If some person new to the hobby in the last year decided to enter and the entries were closed, then I might have some sympathy.

If someone has been in the hobby and entered before, saw the first regional center fill up 2 years back, then rule changes were made to accomadate those that got shut out.  Then all of the center fill up last year (no longer regions) and 10th region added this year to allow for more entries was the change taken by the committee. Then this years competition fills up in about 2+ days..  If anyone was surprised by this after the conference sold out in 2 days, then they have not been paying attention.

 

I don't think the AHA was "not paying attention" and thus allowed the competition to exlude lots of brewers and unfold they way it did. I think the AHA did its best to accomadate as many brews as they could. If they knew this chaos of anger and exclusion would ensue I'm sure they would have taken steps to remedy the situation before it could begin. It clearly can't be conducted in the same manner as before, and the AHA was definitely paying attention and not to blame.

[hopfenundmalz]

If some person new to the hobby in the last year decided to enter and the entries were closed, then I might have some sympathy.

If someone has been in the hobby and entered before, saw the first regional center fill up 2 years back, then rule changes were made to accomadate those that got shut out.  Then all of the center fill up last year (no longer regions) and 10th region added this year to allow for more entries was the change taken by the committee. Then this years competition fills up in about 2+ days..  If anyone was surprised by this after the conference sold out in 2 days, then they have not been paying attention.

 

I don't think the AHA was "not paying attention" and thus allowed the competition to exlude lots of brewers and unfold they way it did. I think the AHA did its best to accomadate as many brews as they could. If they knew this chaos of anger and exclusion would ensue I'm sure they would have taken steps to remedy the situation before it could begin. It clearly can't be conducted in the same manner as before, and the AHA was definitely paying attention and not to blame.

This was not directed at the AHA, but at anyone that had the feeling of anger and exclusion that you mentioned. If they were asleep at the switch when the conference or competition filled up - sorry, there is always next year.

  The AHA has been taking the steps I outlined above. No one, and I mean no one, would have predicted the year to year explosive growth the hobby has been seeing a few years back.  Dealing with growth of this magnitude is hard.

I know several of the GC members, they have been working hard over the last few years to improve the competition and the conference.

[weithman5]

Yes you get a sandwich, some beer, and comraderie.  You also might get a fusel-induced headache and hand cramps from judging 24 beers in one day.  Sometimes its not quite as glorious as it sounds.

sweet.  i have to retake my board next year for work, but i may be able to start preparing for the bjcp as well.

if one brewer actually entered 46 beers and the entry were limited to 5, this would open up slots for at least 8 brewers.  which right there is at least one percent increase in participant availability

[marty]

I'll use the word problem, even though it's a good problem to have...


The "problem" is homebrewing is growing by leaps and bounds, this means there are more and more brewers entering more and more beers in competition. It's not just the NHC, local comps are seeing the same thing. One local comp I enter, the South Shore Brewoff must've had entries go up by 33% or so in one year.

The thing is, anyone can start homebrewing and can soon be entering competitions. There isn't a way for the amount of judges (and stewards and organizers) to grow as quickly.

Judges tend to have been in the hobby for awhile before they decide to become judges. Then they decide they want to become judges and guess what prospective judge you have to be proctored and graded by an even smaller amount of experienced judges. Those guys can only give so many classes, and grade so many exams (even with the multiple choice portion going online)

Some of the new brewers will become judges, and then some of those new judges will advance and be able to train more judges, but that will take time

[repo]

If some person new to the hobby in the last year decided to enter and the entries were closed, then I might have some sympathy.

If someone has been in the hobby and entered before, saw the first regional center fill up 2 years back, then rule changes were made to accomadate those that got shut out.  Then all of the center fill up last year (no longer regions) and 10th region added this year to allow for more entries was the change taken by the committee. Then this years competition fills up in about 2+ days..  If anyone was surprised by this after the conference sold out in 2 days, then they have not been paying attention.

 

I don't think the AHA was "not paying attention" and thus allowed the competition to exlude lots of brewers and unfold they way it did. I think the AHA did its best to accomadate as many brews as they could. If they knew this chaos of anger and exclusion would ensue I'm sure they would have taken steps to remedy the situation before it could begin. It clearly can't be conducted in the same manner as before, and the AHA was definitely paying attention and not to blame.

This was not directed at the AHA, but at anyone that had the feeling of anger and exclusion that you mentioned. If they were asleep at the switch when the conference or competition filled up - sorry, there is always next year.

  The AHA has been taking the steps I outlined above. No one, and I mean no one, would have predicted the year to year explosive growth the hobby has been seeing a few years back.  Dealing with growth of this magnitude is hard.

I know several of the GC members, they have been working hard over the last few years to improve the competition and the conference.

Yes, I thought that was how you meant it. I've seen several people say something similar it just seems to me that a statement like that  can be flung at both sides. I understand there has been considerable dispicable behavior by some folks toward the AHA. I know the AHA wants every brewer to be able to enter every beer they want, that is just not possible. They have a thankless task.